About Torrent and company...

Amphimir Míriel · Apr 1, 2010

I am loving the whole War of the Burning Sky campaign, and getting it through the Community Supporter program is an absolutely great deal. I want to thank the authors and Morrus for making such great products so easily accessible.

My only complaint is that for a great part of at least the first three adventures, the party is stuck with NPCs, in a way such that they are almost DMPCs.

I have made Torrent "go elsewhere to get information or negotiate" for several scenes during the first half of adventure one, but I can't imagine how to do this with her (AND Crystin AND Haddin) during adventures two and three...

( For those unfamiliar with the term, or the reasons why players sometimes dislike these kind of non-player characters, see this old ENWorld discussion. )

sfedi · Apr 1, 2010

These NPCs are DMPCs only if you use them as such.

In any case you can make the players use them, make them hang back in the background or just get rid of them.

None of them are essential, although I personally think they add depth and richness to the campaign.

Amphimir Míriel · Apr 1, 2010

sfedi said:
These NPCs are DMPCs only if you use them as such.

In any case you can make the players use them, make them hang back in the background or just get rid of them.

None of them are essential, although I personally think they add depth and richness to the campaign.

Problem is, that if you make them just "hang back" and not participate in encounters or challenges it kinda strains the suspension of disbelief.

But, if you as a DM, make full use of their abilities and knowledge, then you run the risk of having the NPCs steal the party's thunder (thus becoming DMPCs)

I know there's a middle ground, and I think I have more or less managed it during Scouring of Gate Pass, but I am looking for ideas on how to do the same during Innenotdar and Shelter from the Storm

Imban · Apr 1, 2010

My group actually tends to actively recruit NPCs into the party, so we don't have quite as much hate of DMPCs, but if it's a problem, just make them worse than the PCs. You're the DM, so it shouldn't be terribly hard - especially since few of the allied NPCs in War of the Burning Sky are any good to begin with.

I mean, Torrent, by the book, barely matches up to any competent PC, while Crystin is pretty much worse in every way. Haddin's pretty strong, but limited in what he can do - and since he's a jerk, my group kicked his ass and left him in a pile.

And, well, at least in my book having Crystin ping away with magic missiles doesn't really steal the spotlight from anyone.

This is less true of some NPCs later on - Shalosha and Katrina are fairly effective spellcasters, and Kathor Danava would be quite effective if someone thought to outfit him with real equipment - but those people won't be spending the entire game with the party.

liggetar · Apr 1, 2010

In my game, Torrent was pretty much the only one actively involved. Haddin didn't want to reveal to the party too much of the nature of his magic, so he would hang back and order Crystin to do the same, figuring that the baddies that the party ran across would be attacking those who were actively engaged in combat first.

This worked out well, because Crystin got to spend some time with the party's eladrin artificer, so when the artificer got into trouble, it was a catalyst for her to break daddy's domination and act, which in turn got the party cheering for her. She's got a soft spot in the party's hearts, which is going to be great going forward.

sfedi · Apr 1, 2010

Amphimir Míriel said:
Problem is, that if you make them just "hang back" and not participate in encounters or challenges it kinda strains the suspension of disbelief.

But, if you as a DM, make full use of their abilities and knowledge, then you run the risk of having the NPCs steal the party's thunder (thus becoming DMPCs)

Oh, now I understand better what you meant.
And I agree 100% with you.

Amphimir Míriel said:
I know there's a middle ground, and I think I have more or less managed it during Scouring of Gate Pass, but I am looking for ideas on how to do the same during Innenotdar and Shelter from the Storm

I have the same exact problem.
I don't know how to make them visible/active enough so they feel they are with an NPC, and how to make them invisible/passive enough so that the PCs are still running the show.

Even more, this has to happen on combat as well as on social encounters and investigations, etc.

Morrus · Apr 1, 2010

Amphimir Míriel said:
I know there's a middle ground, and I think I have more or less managed it during Scouring of Gate Pass, but I am looking for ideas on how to do the same during Innenotdar and Shelter from the Storm

I give control of the NPCs to the players in combat. They get to decide whether each NPC helps or not (and uses up a share of the XP in the process). Works remarkably well.

sfedi · Apr 1, 2010

Morrus said:
I give control of the NPCs to the players in combat. They get to decide whether each NPC helps or not (and uses up a share of the XP in the process). Works remarkably well.

How would you handle this in the case where you don't hand out XP?
(I have them level up at certain points in the adventure, when they reach certain goals)