Open Letter To Local Game Stores

HailToTheThief · May 4, 2010

Sabathius42 said:
I agree with all the points of the OP, except half of one of them.

I think in-store-gaming shouldn't be shuffled to a back room. I also don't think it should be taking place front and center in the store to disrupt the shy "Let's see what this is all about" shopper as well.

I think that ideally the in-store gaming should be off to a side but visible, as part of the allure of in store gaming is attracting those who may not be familiar with a product and giving them an example of how it works when being played, with the hopes of getting them to buy into the game.

If all the fun was happening in another room, even if the door was left open, then I would automatically assume it was a private function, and thus might glance through the door for a second or two but in no way stand around long enough to try to figure out what is going on (much less have the audacity to ask if I could play).

There are 2 FLGS's in my area (Northern Kentucky) and neither one has regular in-store-gaming. Neither one has the room for it, truthfully. If either one did have a regular gaming nights I would most likely volunteer to run demos and sample games just to get people introduced to the product.

DS

I can see where you're coming from, and I could be ok with it, it's just a slippery slope. One of my favorite gaming stores in upstate NY originally had all open gaming upstairs. They then moved a couple of tables downstairs, but had a separate area with a single table and typically it was limited to board games. Now you literally have to squeeze past people to get to an entire section of the store. I will bite the bullet and do that to get to a game I've been wanting, but a casual customer sure as hell won't.

I personally am not a fan of open gaming in a retail area, but if it is something done carefully or as a promotion for a new game, it should be done in it's own area, at least away from product that customers will be browsing.

JediSoth · May 4, 2010

I don't mind having a gaming table set up in the store proper, but it becomes highly unwelcoming the moment it gets in the way of browsing products, or if it distracts the staff from doing their job at the cash register.

And for some reason, if I'm browsing product near one of those gaming tables and I get a dirty look from one of the fat beards at the table, it makes me want to flip a bird to the store owner and walk out right then.

*is an angry customer with disposable income*

carmachu · May 4, 2010

Jdvn1 said:
Which isn't the point, anyways. If you don't like Discover, don't accept it. If you have a preference for other forms of payment you can even say so (I've even seen some places give a discount for cash transactions).

But, please, don't be snarky about it, or rude to the customer.

But one should given some explination of why, becuase generally customers ask. And I'm open and honest about it. His complains were valid. His delivery was not.

darjr · May 4, 2010

I don't like dank basement gaming or dark backroom gaming. I game in public to be in public. I agree that gaming shouldn't be jammed in between the store shelves or in the way of shoppers.

One of the reasons I will like a game store is the open and friendly gaming. The store I game at most has two front entrances to two different parts of the place, one, a big open gaming area just behind big windows, and the store display's at the other, both open to each other.

I'll have to post pictures.

Hazard_53188 · May 5, 2010

carmachu said:
But one should given some explination of why, becuase generally customers ask. And I'm open and honest about it. His complains were valid. His delivery was not.

As the customer this happened to, I would have been fine with either a yes or no answer and I wouldn't have asked him why had he chosen to not accept the Discover Card. Had he not accepted it and I asked, telling me that it costs him too much would have been an acceptable response.

However, he chose to accept it and then chose to give me an unnecessary snarky response with his yes. I'm sorry but that is just bad customer service with no excuse.

Which leads me to one bit of advice for store owners; you should keep your concerns and problems to yourself. I've heard other store owners complain about Amazon and EBay and I sympathize but complaining to the customers about this isn't going to make it any better and your customers don't need to hear it. I think you'd be better served by projecting a positive attitude to your customers.

thedungeondelver · May 5, 2010

I sympathize with the OP, I really do. I too am in (Central) Florida and I have seen game stores die one after the other here. Enterprise 1701 was sold, moved across town, and is now part of the Sci-Fi City "chain" (there's a store in NC and one in GA). I can't figure out what they sell anymore. Is it WHFB? WH40K? Part of the front of the store was dominated by Axis and Allies and FoW. Now it's I don't know what.

The employees are "OK" but back in the day they were excellent in a homey sort of "oh hi I know you," way.

Nooks and crannies in the store are stuffed with $.88 value items where they clearly bought too much junk (they have, or had, for a long time an entire wall - a WALL - of those WARHAMMER:40K Space Marine maquettes). Once DWARVEN FORGE went online only and I discovered MINIATURE GIANT here...I really had no reason to go.

The other two game shops here in town (Rhubarb Games and Cool Stuff Inc.) are only open at weird hours. Acme Comics had a pretty nice game selection...which they dropped after they fired both of the game guys (long story there, I won't go in to it).

I'm sorry but the fact is I can (and would rather) buy online. I don't have a need for instant gratification, and most of the time? I can save a boatload of money shopping direct from the manufacturer or online.

My game(s) won't end if I don't have XYZ supplement and if I know I'm going to need a given campaign guide or module or something I'll order it in advance, and work around it if it won't be here on time.

The lone comfort I take from this is that Games Workshop hasn't opened up a store here in town.

The argument might be brought up "But don't you want to go and browse?"...to which I'd say, no. I don't. I'd rather dig through the stacks in my favorite local used bookstore (which, for me as an AD&D player is far more the repository of RPG goodness than FLGSs have ever been, to be honest) than stand around in someone's failing tax dodge.

Sorry, but there we are.

EDIT: Rhubarb Games actually has less weird hours, 2PM-9PM Mon-Fri - still not terribly convenient as I need to get most stuff done early in the day before I get my oldest from school at 3, and Cool Stuff doesn't open until Noon.

Trevalon Moonleirion · May 11, 2010

I think the thing that FLGSs (and any brick and mortar bookstore really) need to provide, more than anything else, in this age of internet purchasing, is a social experience connected to the hobby (in the case of the FLGS) or some other thing that can't easily be recreated online (for bookstores in general)

My favorite local gamestore (Games Plus in Mt. Prospect, iL) is a 45 minute drive away, but brings me back several times a year (not counting my weekly trip up there for gaming) because the owners and employees know their stuff, are super friendly, and they provide an excellent venue to play or host games. The experience of actually flipping through a book that you're considering purchasing, plus the opportunity to ask real people what they think of the product (not anonymous comments who might be getting paid, or are purely spam) are things that you just can't match online.

tl;dr: Provide more than just your products--provide an experience, brick and mortar stores, and you'll still be viable in the future.

ColonelHardisson · May 11, 2010

The original post is dead-on accurate, and many of the subsequent posts have added a lot. There are two things I haven't seen specifically mentioned.

1. Don't badger customers to buy something. There is a difference between asking someone what they're looking for, showing them you have it/offering to order it/suggesting alternatives, and being obnoxious. A shop I went to maybe 15 years ago had someone who would, and I'm not exaggerating, accost customers by loudly asking "are you gonna buy something?" Variations of this would be asked throughout the time a customer was in the store - "find something to buy yet?" When a customer left, the person would send them off with "come back when you can buy something!" I've never experienced anything like this before or since, and would not believe it if I hadn't seen and heard it myself. I went to the place a number of times simply because it had a great selection of game books and scifi and fantasy fiction. The person was so obnoxious, especially when I didn't buy something, that I eventually quit going.

2. Don't try to sell used books as new. This is a bit of a corollary to the posts above discussing knowing when to mark down product. I've known of shops where the owner would go to second-hand/half-off bookstores or estate sales, scoop up most of the prime gaming books, and then try to sell them at cover price. For more recent books it might not be that bad; for older books that are worn and dirty, it's not gonna happen. Not everything is a collectible. To be frank, I can go online and get many of them for a lot less than cover price, even with shipping.

HailToTheThief · Oct 13, 2010

All:

I would not normally dig this up from the grave, but felt this was worth mentioning. Today I found out that less than 2 months after I originally posted this letter, the game store in question has closed their doors for good. Despite my differences with the place I never like to see a store that supports our hobby go under, and I think it casts this thread in an even more urgent light.

Do what you can to encourage your local stores to encourage new business and create a gamer friendly atmosphere!

R-Hero · Oct 13, 2010

HailToTheThief said:
Hello all.
2. Look at your store with the eyes of someone going there for the first time. Today I entered this store and found two people (one of them an employee) sitting at computers playing a game. I was not greeted. Not asked if I needed help. The place reeked of the chinese food they were eating. The saddest part was, this was one of the better looking game shop's I'd been to. I'm sure you all have very vivid memories of stacks of books on the floor, piles of garbage and faded posters. You should be impressing your customers, not scaring them away.

You've been to the Lion and Unicorn haven't you? (Hoover, Alabama)

(It closed years ago, but I think it was from online compitition and a RPG thin core of customers here in the heart of Dixie.)

Your letter is spot on but with ANY bussiness in America. Rude employees will choke the life out of a company. Alabama has it in spades.

I attended a business seminar years ago and never forgot one piece of advice.
"Either run the business yourself, or if you want to work in it, hire a manager to run it for you. DON'T try to do both. You will be half effective at two jobs because of your focus being split."

Gamers running stores while trying to play sets a bad example to customers, new and old.

I really think this letter needs to make it into the hands of a few business owners or a widely circulated busniess magazine.

Kudos. (By the way, Love the En-world name)