d20 modern:1st timer-House rules?

We are playing a victorian era d20Past (to be more specific) game with a heavy Cthulu and Mask of the Red Death influence. Are their any house rules wiki's or other fan compilations on the internet? Google gave me, well, a little but not much.
Some specific early problems:

-Making a kung fu master: Combat martial arts feats are very lame. 1d4, regardless of being real damage not subdual and not provoking AoO, is simply something to laugh at. And laugh hard at. The 3E monk is already, too easily, a flurry of misses master, so Modern nerfs their damage AND takes away any flurry of blows to at least give them another chance to hit. You have to wait until your a martial arts master adv. class, and not real early in that either, before you can really be successful, it seems to me. Besides, most baddies last one combat, and if they get away they usually have plenty of healing time, so doing subdual compared to real damage is a non-issue from the player's side.

-Why enormous lack of classes, even advanced classes like the gunslinger and frontier marshal, that get a fighter BAB progression? The fast hero's drop in hd, for instance, compared to the strong should make up for its greater skill points, yet the fast hero's talent selection is certainly not grand compared to the strong hero. But it still gets a rogue BAB compared to the strong's fighter BAB.

You're making a classic newcomer assumption to d20 Modern. The power level of d20 Modern is (intentionally) lower than that in D&D. Yes, few classes have full bab, martial arts are weaker, and casters don't even get their first spell till 4th level. But otoh, this equally applies to all their enemies.

That's a good point. For most enemies, defense scores just aren't as high as armor class is in D&D, so base attack bonuses don't need to be so high, either.

As far as house rules go, one I always use is to use the rules for subdual damage from D&D rather than what exists in Modern so that it's much easier to wear down opponents.

I'm also a fan of the defense roll, by which heroes can roll d20 and add their defense bonus to it rather than "taking 10," allowing them to supplement it with an action point if necessary.

-Nate

Ok, got ya on the BAB. But the unarmed still, compared to the Brawl d6 is weak. Like I said, most enemies last one encounter. So subdual compared to actual is not much an issue. The brawler draws AoO, but gets a +1 to hit that the martial artist does not, and honestly better feats with Knockout Punch and Improved KOpunch, Streetfighting, and Improved Brawl.

Martial Artist gets Imp. Combat MA.

Both can take Combat MA and combat throw, since there is no "Combat Martial Arts" requirement. At least not on the SRD.

Now, the Brawler can not make AoO. This may be a biggie since enemies can stand right next to him and shoot with no ill effect, but might (might) not do that to the Combat Martial Artist. But with the crappy bast damage he has til high levels, they might not care. I think I'd rather do 2d6 with a gun and maybe get hit for a d4 or d6 than pull a d4 dagger out or something to fight the monk with.
Am I missing something here?

TheGrandNuge said:

Am I missing something here?

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Yes.
1) There is no Sub-dual damage. If non-lethal doesn't equal or exceed MDT then it's utterly meaningless; nothing happens. CMA lets you were through an enemy's hp with unarmed attacks.

2) The game designers wanted you to use a gun most of the time. That's why almost every firearm hits as hard as a great sword.
On the other hand, without static bonuses, guns are fairly anemic, especially against the "typical" ordinaries in the core book (who all use the elite array, for some ungodly reason).

3) A properly built unarmed character can kill a tank with a charge attack (specifically a flying kick). It's actually the fastest way to kill an armored vehicle in d20 Modern, sick Jet Li on it:
1d10 + 3 (melee smash) + 10 (flying kick) + 6 (Str) + 15 (power attack, not maxed) = 1d10+34
Double (Improved Sunder) = 2d10+68. 70 to 88, Average: 79.
M72 LAW: 10d6, ignore 10 hardness. 10 to 60, Average: 35.
Tank HP 64, hardness 20 (ignore up to 6 from strong hero). Damage to one-shot: 64 to 84. Varies based upon hardness dealt with.

Good luck.

1)Big difference we missed so far, or the DM hasn't mentioned it yet. So when duking it out in a barroom brawl, basically no one does any damage pretty much ever, since the avg. con is about 10 and unarmed damage is 1d3? It just goes on forever? Even the Brawl feats for better damage will barely put a whole in that, but for knockout punch in its limited use. Why ever take them?

2) Got that.
For the 'feel' of pulp adventure/Sherlock Holmes/Indy... we are expecting more brawling than the average campaign especially against cultists in the cities. Can't just blast anyone willy-nilly on the streets of NY or London. This non-lethal rule bases on the damage threshold may not work for us at all.

3)That's amazing.

The other issue is that the DM has decided to use a fatigue/wound system now as well.
-Normal hp are now 'fatigue' which heal quite quickly.
-Wound points = constitution score only.
-Still using Damage Threshold rule.
-Improved Damage Threshold feat also adds 3 to your wound points.
The fatigue thing is another reason combat martial arts loses something in the rule change.
So what to do now?

TheGrandNuge said:

1)Big difference we missed so far, or the DM hasn't mentioned it yet. So when duking it out in a barroom brawl, basically no one does any damage pretty much ever, since the avg. con is about 10 and unarmed damage is 1d3? It just goes on forever? Even the Brawl feats for better damage will barely put a whole in that, but for knockout punch in its limited use. Why ever take them?

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It is a huge difference, and something that's not immediately obvious.
a) It goes on until either people get tired of punching each other to no real effect (ala Greggory Peck and Charlton Heston in The Big Country, which is a great scene), someone picks up a chair or breaks a bottle to start doing real damage, or someone that is good in a brawl lands a lucky shot (enough damage to potentially knock out a foe).
b) If a character is strong then the Brawl feats give him a lot of knockout potential. With a 14+ Strength, he can knock out a normally healthy guy of any level with a non-critical punch. That's an important feature to keep in mind.
c) Power Attack is your friend in a brawl. It works with your unarmed damage, and can easily give you those extra, necessary, points of damage.
d) Unless the character is built to be a brawler, get a stun gun or a taser. They're cheap, they're more effective, and they'll work a lot more often.

For the 'feel' of pulp adventure/Sherlock Holmes/Indy... we are expecting more brawling than the average campaign especially against cultists in the cities. Can't just blast anyone willy-nilly on the streets of NY or London. This non-lethal rule bases on the damage threshold may not work for us at all.

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And there are a lot of people that feel that way. In which case you have a few options:
1) Sub-dual damage. This has a bad side: high level foes cannot be knocked out without almost killing them first.
2) Turn non-lethal into an automatic saving throw with staged results. Fort DC = 5 + non-lethal Damage. Failure leaves the target dazed, failure by 5+ leaves the target stunned, failure by 10+ leaves the target staggered, and failure by 15+ leaves the target unconscious. Tweak the base DC to fit the style of game (and feel free to make it different for Ordinaries than for Heroic characters). And give a +1 per Improved Damage Threshold feat.
3) Some other thing I haven't heard/thought of before.

3)That's amazing.

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And totally ridiculous.
And totally destructive of my suspension of disbelief.
And offensive to the U.S. Marine in me, and my sense of how people fight.
And makes Quai Chang Kang more dangerous than an anti-tank rocket.
But hey, some folks love it. The important thing is to have fun.

The other issue is that the DM has decided to use a fatigue/wound system now as well.
...
So what to do now?

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In this situation, I'd probably go with a couple of add-ons.

• Ordinaries don't get Fatigue. All the damage they take is straight to wounds. That means they only have Constitution hit points, ever. Much shorter fights, and much more cinematic.
• Non-lethal damage as either subdual or a save-system similar to what I mentioned above. I'd probably used base 5 for Heroes (PC or villain), and base 10 for Ordinaries and other mooks. Maybe a base 7 for tough lieutenants. Adjust to taste as the campaign continues.

Oh, and Improved Damage Threshold is massively awesome, for this campaign. Feel free to take it.

Good luck.

Ok lets say we go with sub-dual damage for non-lethal onto the fatigue. Not being able to ko a foe real fast is something we are used to anyway from DnD and Iron heroes.
Should we then up the base damage for combat martial arts to be more n line with brawl (and so the Martial Artist damage boosts), since the line between their effect is now blurred? Most bad guys last one fight so subdual or real usually does not matter. Both will simply apply to fatigue until they are gone, then wound....