Rote vs. Restricted [Plus a sample Trailblazered spell sheet]

AdmundfortGeographer · Jul 9, 2011

The title pretty much asks the question. Rote spells are single target spell with a duration of 1 min/level or less. Restricted spells include spells with a duration of 10 minutes/level or longer.

Is a duration of Instantaneous shorter than 1 min/level? It would make Cure spells fit into Rote. Reasonable. But nightmare is also a single target Instantaneous duration spell that affects the target with fatigue for 24 hours and unable to regain arcane spells for 24 hours

My thought is that Instantaneous is meant to be rote.

Thoughts?

PS. What about single target spells shorter than 10 mins/level but longer than 1 min/level? Or duration of just 10 minutes (like remove fear) Rote or Restricted?

[Update: 7/10/2011, look to Post #3 for my Bard Spell list I'll be giving my players. Additional class spell lists are forthcoming]

ValhallaGH · Jul 9, 2011

The R/R/R distinction is a guideline. By that guideline, most Instantaneous spells are Rote; unless the GM decides that the spell needs to be Restricted, or a Ritual, for balance / flavor reasons.

Similarly, certain area effects (like Bless) are considered Rote for their iconic nature and overall game balance (it's good but it's not breaking to use it in every encounter).

By the guidelines, anything with a duration less than 10 minutes per level is Rote (including things with flat durations, such as Remove Fear). Again, the GM can (and should) adjust to taste.

AdmundfortGeographer · Jul 10, 2011

I'd like to create spell sheets to go along with my legal-sized character sheet for each spell list that marks each SRD spell with a place to mark off whether the spell was readied and some notation signifying Rote, Restricted, and Ritual.

DM judgement is good, but it makes creating a "universal" sheet for it a point of conflict.

A community's best sense would be nice. Whether bless is iconic enough (or magic missile for that matter) that it deserves Rote status despite it falling into Restricted, by the reading of the rules as written. Otherwise, I was going to be hard nosed and fit to the listed qualities.

I guess that could be another thread question, which spells are iconic spells and deserve to be Rote when the RAW says they are Restricted . . .

[Update]The latest version of the spell list inserts are posted in this thread.

ValhallaGH · Jul 10, 2011

Well, let's clear up a few misconceptions, then.

Magic missile is Rote. It's a single target spell with an instantaneous duration. As caster level increases, damage increases, with the option to split damage amongst multiple targets - this does not affect its Rote status.
Input: http://www.enworld.org/forum/bad-axe-games-hosted-forum/296756-trailblazer-spell-system.html

Page nine of that first linked thread has a lot of discussion about R/R/R distinctions.

Also relevant: http://www.enworld.org/forum/bad-axe-games-hosted-forum/296756-trailblazer-spell-system.html

Wulf Ratbane · Jul 10, 2011

Eric Anondson said:
DM judgement is good, but it makes creating a "universal" sheet for it a point of conflict. ]

The DM's judgement is paramount.

I like the "blanket" rules for R/R/R and they will work in 99.9% of cases.

But it's actually expected that you will need to move them around during play.

For spells where you can't quite decide, you can have the first casting (slot) Rote, and second or subsequent castings become Restricted. That's a good middle ground to let the players know you'd like to see them diversify their tools a bit.

Whether bless is iconic enough that it deserves Rote status despite it falling into Restricted, by the reading of the rules as written. Otherwise, I was going to be hard nosed and fit to the listed qualities.

For the record, I am a hard ass on bless. It's good enough (functionally) to be Restricted. The only argument in favor of making it Rote is so that players aren't completely discouraged from readying it at low level. Thus, it's an excellent choice for the above tweak.

In my current campaign, I have been testing out a tweak suggested by my wizard player: He voluntarily drops the duration of Restricted spells so that they are Rote when cast.

AdmundfortGeographer · Jul 10, 2011

Wulf Ratbane said:
For spells where you can't quite decide, you can have the first casting (slot) Rote, and second or subsequent castings become Restricted. That's a good middle ground to let the players know you'd like to see them diversify their tools a bit.

In the thread linked to by ValhallaGH, Wulf and Glassjaw noted that a list of SRD spells with Restricted/Rote/Ritual designations were forthcoming. I didn't find any posted anywhere so I was going out and building the lists for myself. Did such a SRD spell list with R/R/R designations get published that I missed?

What ought to go on a useful spell list that you would give to PCs to reference? I figured:

- Some notation signifying R/R/R
- A way to mark which spells are readied.
- Maybe a spot to note how many spells slots at each spell level.
- A spot to write down how many the PC can ready at each spell level.
- Each spell level's DC.

DC, # readied, and spell slots are already on the main character sheet, but I believe having them here is valuable even if the redundancy could cause "character update confusion".

Would anyone find value in designating the spells with color as well as the symbols?

I guess one more guidelines for determining:

- If the effects of spell (i.e. single target now but multiple target later) qualifies as Rote at the earliest level the character can cast it then the spell is Rote always (unless DM judgement override)

What about spells with duration of Concentration plus #rnds/level? It could be kept up for hours, potentially, but more often just a combat . . .

Wulf Ratbane said:
In my current campaign, I have been testing out a tweak suggested by my wizard player: He voluntarily drops the duration of Restricted spells so that they are Rote when cast.

I like the idea of bumping Bless to Rote to incentivize its readying. This tweak being tested sounds awesome. Innovative! I can't want to hear your other tested tweaks.

AdmundfortGeographer · Jul 10, 2011

The SRD spells include a spell list with a one sentence mini-description. Should a reference spell list for players bother keeping the one sentence mini description?

Or would a reference spell list be more useful to instead include notations for SR (yes/no), Save (None/Fort/Will/Ref/half), [all keywords]