What weapon represents humanity?

My friend and I were talking about the tendency of races to have weapons named after them. The elven curveblade, the dwarven waraxe, weird orcish double weapons, etc. Then I thought of the old joke - "In China, they just call chinese food 'food.'" An elf would no more think of a a sword as an "elven curve blade" than you or I would think of a cross bow as a "human bolt launcher."

But, what WOULD elves and dwarves and halfpersons think of as "human" weapons? It's difficult to imagine, but the idea continues to fascinate me. If you were to take it further, is there a weapon that humans should treat as martial?

My candidate for a weapon representative of the human race -
The bastard sword. It has the versatility of the human race, in that it is designed to be used either one or two handed. Also, let's face it: we're bastards.

Runners up -
Various gladiator weapons. Gladiatorial combat seems uniquely human to me, for some reason. They represent the cruel inventiveness and glee mankind takes in the task of designing murderweapons.

Polearms
I'm not sure why I think this one, other than the fact that they FEEL humany, and they seem especially feat-driven. An extra feat being the hallmark of the human race, after all.

Thoughts?

Tayne said:

My friend and I were talking about the tendency of races to have weapons named after them. The elven curveblade, the dwarven waraxe, weird orcish double weapons, etc. Then I thought of the old joke - "In China, they just call chinese food 'food.'" An elf would no more think of a a sword as an "elven curve blade" than you or I would think of a cross bow as a "human bolt launcher."

But, what WOULD elves and dwarves and halfpersons think of as "human" weapons? It's difficult to imagine, but the idea continues to fascinate me. If you were to take it further, is there a weapon that humans should treat as martial?

My candidate for a weapon representative of the human race -
The bastard sword. It has the versatility of the human race, in that it is designed to be used either one or two handed. Also, let's face it: we're bastards.

Runners up -
Various gladiator weapons. Gladiatorial combat seems uniquely human to me, for some reason. They represent the cruel inventiveness and glee mankind takes in the task of designing murderweapons.

Polearms
I'm not sure why I think this one, other than the fact that they FEEL humany, and they seem especially feat-driven. An extra feat being the hallmark of the human race, after all.

Thoughts?

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Being not an especially exciting weapon, rather common one, a long sword is the most common sword type. Humans tend to be the most common race in most fantasy worlds, so it makes sense that a long sword is what you are looking for.

While any weapon could qualify as usable by humans, lots of weapons like katana fit as human - if you're in the orient/Japan, but then is exotic for non-oriental settings, so it doesn't belong to your quest.

Bastard sword is an exotic weapon. Being that it's exotic, it seems to me to NOT be representative as a 'human' weapon, otherwise it would qualify as a martial weapon, and it is not.

While gladiator weapons in Rome are human weapons, in fantasy games, many humanoids qualify as distinctly gladiator races, and in no way is an exclusive activity for humans. So gladiator weapons are out of qualification. Polearms are common to many races in D&D, and arguably polearms are the least common weapon used in most D&D/PF gameplay. How many spear specialists have you seen in play? I haven't seen any, and the spear is the most common polearm.

When visiting a dungeon the most common found magical weapon is a +1 long sword. Also most humans do not have class levels, but the most common weapon in low (1st - 3rd level play) is a long sword.

Ultimately humans are the most versatile race, so trying to assign one weapon as being the most human, I think is antithetical. Humans can use any weapon, so there is no single human weapon out there. Any singular choice is limiting humans, and humans can not be limited - hence the bonus feat, the extra skills versus any other race.

same reason there has never been a human domain.

Tayne said:

is there a weapon that humans should treat as martial?

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I like the idea - heck, I'd even extend it to two weapons like the other races. I think bastard sword is a fine choice. The other one I'd be inclined to de-exoticify for humans is the two-bladed sword. Many of the other racial weapons are double weapons, so there's a symmetry here. Also, the only race I've ever seen wielding one is human (probably because of the extra feat, but whatever).
-blarg

Bastard sword is an exotic weapon. Being that it's exotic, it seems to me to NOT be representative as a 'human' weapon, otherwise it would qualify as a martial weapon, and it is not.

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I think your reasoning is a bit circular here. For one thing, IIRC, Bastard Swords count as Martial weapons when used two-handed. But most of the "racial" weapons are exotic but count as martial weapons to their race. There aren't any Human weapons like this, but there certainly COULD be.

I don't think the weapon would HAVE to be exotic, but it should be something that humans would typically be trained to use. Longswords would make sense, as would spears and halberds - they are all relatively common weapons for humans, but might be far less widely used by other races.

Ultimately humans are the most versatile race, so trying to assign one weapon as being the most human, I think is antithetical. Humans can use any weapon, so there is no single human weapon out there. Any singular choice is limiting humans, and humans can not be limited - hence the bonus feat, the extra skills versus any other race.

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It seems to me that any race can use any weapon and be any class, so that hardly disqualifies humans from having racial weapons. If versatility is the key feature of humans, then maybe they just need a versatile weapon. Lonswords would work, although they are not historically accurate and are already associated with Elves. Halberds could fit the bill (no pun intended) as weapons designed to work in a variety of ways against a variety of foes. They were also common weapons for guards and soldiers during the historical periods that most closely resemble typical D&D-type fantasy worlds.

Part of the problem is trying to "think like an elf" (or orc, etc).

What would such a non human see wielded by a human and think "Gah, look at that weird human weapon," from that point on associating it with the race? it boggles my mind to even try.

Longswords are out BECAUSE they're so common and so familiar to elven folk. Bastard swords aren't all that different, so maybe I need to re-think that.

Halberds and other reach pole-arms are a bit more unique in form and function, so maybe they're the best option.

Javelins might be a good candidate, being associated with a (perhaps uniquely human?) sporting event. Also, anthropologists credit the throwing arm as being mankind's first distinct evolutionary hunting advantage over animals, and the javelin is probably the perfect example of this, but they may be again too common.

Because humans are versatile and multi cultural makes giving them a specific "Human" Weapon Problematic. An African Type society of human may have never heard of a bastard sword (though there may be an equivalent not sure off the top of my head.) If you do something like that make it a region by region type thing. I believe they did similar things in Both forgotten realms and Scarred lands.

Nookie said:

Because humans are versatile and multi cultural makes giving them a specific "Human" Weapon Problematic. An African Type society of human may have never heard of a bastard sword (though there may be an equivalent not sure off the top of my head.) If you do something like that make it a region by region type thing. I believe they did similar things in Both forgotten realms and Scarred lands.

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Regional weapon familiarity makes perfect sense.

DDogwood said:

I think your reasoning is a bit circular here. For one thing, IIRC, Bastard Swords count as Martial weapons when used two-handed. But most of the "racial" weapons are exotic but count as martial weapons to their race. There aren't any Human weapons like this, but there certainly COULD be.

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I was only responding to the OP's consideration of bastard sword, in his words, "you can use it in one hand or both." So that means he was considering the exotic aspect of the bastard sword, even though we both know that in 2 hands, the weapon is not exotic. My argument is not circular at all.

DDogwood said:

I don't think the weapon would HAVE to be exotic, but it should be something that humans would typically be trained to use. Longswords would make sense, as would spears and halberds - they are all relatively common weapons for humans, but might be far less widely used by other races.

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Not only does the weapon NOT need to be exotic, I think being exotic defines it as not being an ideal 'human' weapon.

DDogwood said:

It seems to me that any race can use any weapon and be any class, so that hardly disqualifies humans from having racial weapons. If versatility is the key feature of humans, then maybe they just need a versatile weapon. Lonswords would work, although they are not historically accurate and are already associated with Elves. Halberds could fit the bill (no pun intended) as weapons designed to work in a variety of ways against a variety of foes. They were also common weapons for guards and soldiers during the historical periods that most closely resemble typical D&D-type fantasy worlds.

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I don't think there is a human weapon, that have not been wielded by or be familiar by any and all other races. So your argument with long sword's association with Elves is moot, in that long swords aren't elven specific weapons, rather a common sword usable by any race.

I think the idea of a human specific weapon, is actually a silly one. At least in regards to universally all humans.

Now the points regarding regional weapons makes a lot more sense. As in my first post, I describe oriental weapons, say katana. In an oriental setting, a katana could be considered a distinctly human weapon. It's even exotic (to follow the OP's premise). Outside of an oriental setting, a katana is not only exotic, but perhaps, completely unheard of. Elves don't use katana, but tengu probably do, yet human samurai are it's predominant user.

Altering an old saying, "When in Rome, use the weapon that Romans use"

The heavy mace...it's simple, effective and gets the job done.