Discharing held spells against illusions...

FlimFlam · Dec 10, 2002

If you are holding a charged spell (like Inflict Light Wounds) and try to hit a Mirror Image, will the spell go off? What about other illusion type spells?

On a slightly different note... Can you technically cast Magic Missile at a Mirror Image? Our Mage did this the other night, and he ended up splitting the Magic Missiles in order to get rid of the mirror images. But technically, I think you can only target creatures with the spell. The Mirror Images would not be creatures. Also, Magic Missile says it strikes unerringly. So if the caster wanted to hit the real creature, shouldn't he be able to do that?

IceBear · Dec 10, 2002

Man, I wish I could remember. This came up in the past and I can't remember what the ruling was. I think someone asked the Sage as it was bouncing back and forth quite a bit.

One side said that you weren't actually touching anything and thus nothing could be discharged and the other stating that you intended to touch something so it got released when you "thought" you touched it. This went into some house rules, but I *think* the Sage said that the spell would be lost, just like any other targetted spell would be lost against such an illusion.

IceBear

Hypersmurf · Dec 10, 2002

On a slightly different note... Can you technically cast Magic Missile at a Mirror Image? Our Mage did this the other night, and he ended up splitting the Magic Missiles in order to get rid of the mirror images. But technically, I think you can only target creatures with the spell. The Mirror Images would not be creatures. Also, Magic Missile says it strikes unerringly. So if the caster wanted to hit the real creature, shouldn't he be able to do that?

My take on this - and I know others disagree - is that if you cast the spell attempting to target one of the images, the Missiles simply fail to manifest. You expend the slot to no effect, and in return, you know that that particular image is not real.

It's what I'd do if someone tried to Magic Missile a rock - lose the slot, no missiles fire.

I wouldn't allow you to target "the real creature" out of a bunch of five - you'd still have to pick which one you were aiming at. If your 20% chance comes up right, the real caster gets magic missiled. The other 80% of the time, the spell fizzles.

IMO.

-Hyp.

FlimFlam · Dec 11, 2002

I believe if one of the Mirror Images gets hit (like with a normal attack for example) it disappears, which in turn lessens the chance you will miss the real target on the next attack.

If Magic Missile just fizzles before it hits the Mirror Image, then it won't disappear. The Mirror Images are moving around constantly, so you won't be able to remember which image it was that was hit by the spell. That just doesn't seem fair to me but YOMV.

Stalker0 · Dec 11, 2002

It's a tricky situation. Does the magic react to what you think or what it thinks?

Obviously some abilites like smite no the diff, it doesn't matter how evil you think that guy is, smite won't work if he's not.

Magic Missiles target "creatures". However, in the magic description of the ph, it doesn't say the spell fizzles, it simply says it has no effect on the target. So I do believe the missiles would fly at the images, the question is would they still be able to knock them out?

I've always said yes, because its one of the good counters for mirror image. But now...I'm not so sure.

Hypersmurf · Dec 11, 2002

The Mirror Images are moving around constantly, so you won't be able to remember which image it was that was hit by the spell.

The images shuffle when the caster moves.

If a/ you're hasted, or b/ you have allies, until the caster's next action, you know that the image you targetted was not the caster, and can communicate that to your friends.

Even better - if you spread your five missiles across his five images... four missiles will fizzle, and one will zap him. Whichever image gets zapped is not an image at all, and that's the one your monk buddy grapples.

After that, you just ignore any image that isn't rolling on the ground getting punched.

-Hyp.

FlimFlam · Dec 11, 2002

Hypersmurf said:
The images shuffle when the caster moves.

If a/ you're hasted, or b/ you have allies, until the caster's next action, you know that the image you targetted was not the caster, and can communicate that to your friends.

Even better - if you spread your five missiles across his five images... four missiles will fizzle, and one will zap him. Whichever image gets zapped is not an image at all, and that's the one your monk buddy grapples.

After that, you just ignore any image that isn't rolling on the ground getting punched.

-Hyp.

I'm not so concerned on alternate ways to counter Mirror Image as I am with how Magic Missile reacts with it. If those four missiles hit (the Mirror Images that is) then should they not disappear? And isn't it the spell as a whole that would fizzle, not each individual missile?

IceBear · Dec 11, 2002

Well, based on this question in the FAQ:

If I get hit by a fireball spell while I’m using a mirror
image spell, do all my images disappear? The spell as
written in the book seems to imply that they survive but it
would seem to me that any area effect damage should wipe
them all out.

Area spells don’t destroy the figments created by the mirror
image spell, but targeted spells do. To determine if a spell is
“targeted,” look at the information that proceeds each spell
description. If there is a Target or Targets entry, the spell is
targeted. A spell also is “targeted” if it has an Effect entry and
the effect is a ray or something else that requires a melee or
ranged attack to strike a foe, such as the missile created by the
Melf’s acid arrow spell or the beam of fire from a flame blade
spell.

and the Magic Missle spell description

Magic Missile

Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

I would think that each magic missle targetted at an image would destroy it.

IceBear

Artoomis · Dec 11, 2002

Indeed, a standard tactic vs. Mirror Image is to launch one Magic Missle at each image, to the limit of your number of missles, to get rid of the extra images.

Mind you, we play with the simpler ruling that the images constantly shift around, so that you never know where the mage is. We also don't give each image its own 5' square.

While it increases the power of Mirror Imaage over the way it was written, it's much easier to handle.

IceBear · Dec 11, 2002

Actually I used to use that too until I read Hypersmurf's posts in the Blade Barrier thread (mainly about how closing your eyes weakens Mirror Image if they are all in one square).

I had accidentially used mirror image this way because I never read the spell properly (just did it the old way), but I think I'll use it as per the book (and not allow it to flank to stop that cheese before anyone wants to try it) the next time.

IceBear

Discharing held spells against illusions...

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