D&D 5E Idea to handle the "ghoul problem"

Stalker0

Legend
Listening to the recent podcast and the issue with the ghouls, i was thinking of this idea for saving throws with multi-attacks:

1) If you are hit by one attack, make a save with advantage.
2) Get hit by 2 attacks, make a save.
3) Get hit by 3 attacks, make a save with disadvantage.

So this way you only make 1 save, but it still scales with the number of hits you take.

Thoughts?
 

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I think 4th edition had this right with their ghoul in the progressive status effect contingent upon a combination of attacks. It creates for a more robust tactical experience in running the monsters for the GM and creates tension for the PCs without stun-locking them out of combat.

I would prefer to gut multiattack and make their suite of actions be:

- 2 Claws as an action; + 5/1d6 + 1; Con Save or Restrained.

- 1 Bite as an action; + 5/1d8 + 1; Con Save or Stunned and Restrained creatures have disadvantage.

Something like that.
 

Warbringer

Explorer
Nice.

For simplicity, and to take some of the fear factor out, how about "if a ghoul hits on any hit make a save. A successful save means you are immune to further paralysis effects until your next short rest. If you fail, you are paralyzed."
 


I was always a fan of the 3e solution: if you saved against a particular ghoul you were immune to that ghoul's paralysis but not other ghouls or other sources, such as spells or poisons.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
It seems to me that the answer is to get rid of multiple attacks for the Ghoul.

In general, I think a creature should only get multiple attacks as a method for attacking multiple opponents. Otherwise, it's messes with the abstraction that is an attack.

I was about to say the same.

Each attack has often (always?) be described so that it's not strictly one swing, but could be a bunch of attempts in 6 seconds. At least in case of melee, since with ranged attacks it gets harder to see it that way if you want to keep track of ammunition.

There is hardly a reason for having multiple attacks, except for attacking multiple creatures in the same round.

So I agree, they should give a monster multiple attacks only rarely. For instance when they want to emphasize one of these cases:

- a fast ranged attack monsters, such as a creature shooting rays, striking with extended lots of whip-like tentacles, throwing rocks quickly etc.

- a melee attack monsters that is especially capable when surrounded by enemies, either a large creature cleaving through them or a creature with lots of arms/tentacles

- a monster with plain superhuman speed

Ghouls are neither of them, although in some tales I think they've been depicted as being faster than people. But in general, multiattacks should be rare so that the difference with normal monsters is going to be emphasized, and the battle is more memorable.

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EDIT:

Also it would be nice to include guidelines/suggestions about how the DM should run & describe multiattacks, because IMHO the main problem is that (1) they represent a FAST monster but (2) they are SLOW to run. So this is kind of counterproductive...

If you want to deliver the feel of a FAST monster, I think the DM should use some trick here. E.g. don't roll the giant octopus' 4 attacks in sequence, instead take a minute to roll all of them behind the screen, and announce all the results together at once. That might give the players the feel that the octopus is striking 4 targets at the same time. Or write down the PC's AC on a small paper, put it in the middle of the table, then roll 4d20 in sequence for the evil archer's attacks, but be quick about announcing the results (maybe roll damage dice at the same time, but don't wait for the player to update her HP each time) before the next roll.
 
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Klaus

First Post
It seems to me that the answer is to get rid of multiple attacks for the Ghoul.

In general, I think a creature should only get multiple attacks as a method for attacking multiple opponents. Otherwise, it's messes with the abstraction that is an attack.

Heartily agree.
 


Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
I like multiattacks and think it should remain. I think the revised ghoul found in the Against The Slavelords Bestiary is better as its less crippling while remaining nasty
 

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