D&D 5E Damaging Spells

was · Jul 6, 2014

Are the new spells too powerful for low-level characters? After picking up the starter set yesterday, several of the players in my group are currently discussing this question. I have not yet decided on where I fall on this issue.
Examples in the argument:
Burning Hands: 1st level spell does 3d6 starting damage before scaling
Guiding Bolt: 1st level spell does 4d6 starting damage before scaling
Inflict Wounds: 1st level spell does 3d10 starting damage before scaling
Magic Missile: 1st level spell does 1d4 +1 per missile but still automatically hits and starts with three missiles before scaling
Fireball: 3rd level spell does 8d6 starting damage before scaling
Lightning Bolt: 3rd level spell does 8d6 starting damage before scaling

Truename · Jul 7, 2014

was said:
Are the new spells too powerful for low-level characters? After picking up the starter set yesterday, several of the players in my group are currently discussing this question. I have not yet decided on where I fall on this issue.
Examples in the argument:
Burning Hands: 1st level spell does 3d6 starting damage before scaling
Guiding Bolt: 1st level spell does 4d6 starting damage before scaling
Inflict Wounds: 1st level spell does 3d10 starting damage before scaling
Magic Missile: 1st level spell does 1d4 +1 per missile but still automatically hits and starts with three missiles before scaling
Fireball: 3rd level spell does 8d6 starting damage before scaling
Lightning Bolt: 3rd level spell does 8d6 starting damage before scaling

I haven't analyzed the math in depth, but I don't think they are.

1- Because of bounded accuracy, the primary scaling mechanism in the game is damage and hit points.

2- Wizards' (non-cantrip) spells are meant to be game changers. They don't get used in every combat, but when they do, they're supposed to have a big impact. In contrast, fighter attacks are meant to be steady, reliable damage.

So it looks right to me. And in general, because of bounded accuracy, I expect people to feel like hit point and damage growth are a bit out of control compared to prior editions.

Kobold Avenger · Jul 7, 2014

A greatsword does 2d6 + str mod damage and can be used every round, which beats every cantrip at 1st level in terms of damage. 1st level spells can only be used a few times per day. The way things are meant is that the fighter and related types get higher consistent damage every round over spellcasters, while spellcasters can potentially do higher single round damage than fighters less often.

RHGreen · Jul 7, 2014

was said:
Are the new spells too powerful for low-level characters? After picking up the starter set yesterday, several of the players in my group are currently discussing this question. I have not yet decided on where I fall on this issue.
Examples in the argument:

Magic Missile: 1st level spell does 1d4 +1 per missile but still automatically hits and starts with three missiles before scaling

Can't comment on the other spells, but Magic Missile is better balanced than it has been is any previous Vancian version (4E version was fine because it was At-Will)

In previous versions you can think of it like this: By spending years in study and hard work you can definitely stab someone with a dagger once a day while compensating for this amazing ability by being easy to hit and having virtually no hitpoints, while next to you a fighter covered in armour, with a massive amount of hitpoints and probably a Dex bonus has about a 50/50 chance of doing three or four times that damage every turn all day.

Magic Missile has always needed a massive buff. If you look at the new version it is like saying you can definitely hit someone with a Great Axe once a day. If you look at it that way, is it powerful enough? I can live with the new version.

IronWolf · Jul 7, 2014

My initial read of Burning Hands I had similar first thoughts - "wow! 3d6!" But I think the points made here are good ones. Magic has to bring something that is more promising than simply training with a sword. So I am anxious to see how this plays out.

Stalker0 · Jul 7, 2014

Guiding Bolt is pretty darn strong for 1st level.

On average, it will knock the fighter out if its hits (14 damage vs likely 12-13 hp). It it crits, it will kill him on average (28 damage....24-26 damage is insta kill for the fighter).

For another wizard (hp = 7-8, an average roll on guiding bolt could take them out).

So a couple of times per day the wizard can basically take out who they want. Very strong, but depending on how the roles not necessarily OP.

Falling Icicle · Jul 7, 2014

The problem isn't that the spells do too much damage (relative to everything else in the game, they don't). The problem is that 1st level characters are just way too fragile. I think they decided that the imbalance at that level isn't very important since it is only supposed to last for a single session of play.

I do agree that guiding bolt is too strong, though. It deals more damage than any of the wizard 1st level spells, and it has a nice secondary effect on top of that.

Evenglare · Jul 7, 2014

I was under the assumption is that level 1-3 or 4 are basically you getting to learn your class, where as upon reaching level 4 or 5 you have fully realized your class and then thats when the game really begins to start. Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure the design choice was infact to make you very squishy at level 1, it only takes 300xp to get to level 2. You shouldn't be level 1 for more than maybe a couple of hours in play time.

Samurai · Jul 7, 2014

Falling Icicle said:
The problem isn't that the spells do too much damage (relative to everything else in the game, they don't). The problem is that 1st level characters are just way too fragile. I think they decided that the imbalance at that level isn't very important since it is only supposed to last for a single session of play.

I do agree that guiding bolt is too strong, though. It deals more damage than any of the wizard 1st level spells, and it has a nice secondary effect on top of that.

Guiding Bolt is a single target spell, while things like Burning Hands or Thunderwave affect multiple targets. Also, Guiding Bolt requires a ranged attack roll, which does no effect at all if it misses, while AoE usually still do half on a save and Magic Missile hits automatically with no save. Finally, note that casting a ranged attack spell while an enemy is within 5' of you means you have Disadvantage on your attack roll, while spells that don't use an attack roll (AoE or Magic Missile) don't have that limitation. So, all in all, I'd say Guiding Bolt is balanced compared to similar level Wizard spells.

Stalker0 · Jul 7, 2014

I personally don't mind 1st level characters being "too fragile". If that is the case for my group I can always start them at 2nd level. Heck in 3rd edition I almost never started below 3rd level.

D&D 5E Damaging Spells

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