D&D 5E Ranger

Chriscdoa · Aug 9, 2014

What are peoples oponions on the new ranger then?

I have the book but haven't had time to read it much, but still it looks like the ranger is a bit naff.

i really don't like how you use your actions to make your companion attack.
why would you want to when you are probably better off attacking yourself.
i don't see the issue with the AC getting its own attacks. Its not a moba or mmo where only the killer gets xp!

Also not a fan of full casting, but i guess if you want a non castin ranger you go rogue or fighter.

TwoSix · Aug 9, 2014

I'd say the two classes I came out from reading the PHB feeling pretty "Meh" about are the ranger and the sorcerer. I'm sure ranger does OK, I just don't see a lot about them to get excited about. I'm thinking that a lot of their uniqueness might be in the spell lists, rather than the class features.

Paraxis · Aug 9, 2014

I would agree Ranger is a little underperforming especially in combat. It is not a full casting class though, just half casting, a full casting class has cantrips and 9th level spells.

At 7th level the beast master path using his bonus action to have his animal companion use the help action on him is nice, but for a combat ranger I would stay away from beast master and go with hunter.

I would probably go with a rogue/fighter with a woodsy background to be honest if I wanted a combat ranger type. The ranger seems to be an exploration type character, not something you take to a DPR competition.

Zelc · Aug 9, 2014

First, let's consider combat only. The Beast Master Ranger seems to be OK. The beast companion tends to start with a high base to-hit (equivalent to an 18 or 20 ability) and gets your proficiency bonus to attacks and damage, which let it keep up with your character's damage. It might fall off later due to a lack of magic item support. The Beast Master does end up with 3 attacks which keeps up with the Fighter up to level 20. I'm a bit worried about the companion's low hit point scaling, but proficiency bonus to AC might keep it alive.

I'm more concerned about the Hunter Ranger. The level 11 damage boost requires multiple enemies, and the 3rd level damage boost is very conditional or not that impressive (Colossus Slayer). It gets some defensive options, but again they are highly conditional.

Out of combat, the Ranger has more wilderness savvy than either the Paladin or the Fighter. Unfortunately, the Ranger's bonuses mostly only apply to Wisdom and Intelligence skills (also has some special Hide abilities). Perception and Insight could be very useful but otherwise there isn't too much to get me excited.

I think boosting the Hunter Ranger's damage output makes sense (e.g. a third attack, or even just getting all of the options instead of having to choose), and/or either giving Rangers in general Expertise or allowing the skill bonuses to apply to all skills. Hunter Rangers getting Sneak Attack at 1/3 or 1/2 Rogue progression is simple and fits the theme. As for the Beast Master, the main concern is keeping it alive -- maybe give Hunter Rangers the same spell slots to healing ability as the Moon Druid and let them split it with their Beast Companion.

Gladius Legis · Aug 9, 2014

First things first: Hunter's Mark is definitely the first spell ANY Ranger should learn. That'll keep you from falling terribly far behind DPR-wise.

As for the Hunter features:

Giant Killer is probably the best choice overall, and good as is. An extra attack is always good (moreso with Hunter's Mark), and a lot of the high-CR enemies are Large or larger. Basically they eat your attack if they stand next to you and attack you, or they try to move away and you get an OA.
Colossus Slayer probably needs a boost either to 2d8, or perhaps just let it apply to all attacks you make a la Paladin's Improved Divine Smite.
Hordebreaker's distance should probably be increased to 10 feet. That'll give it some more utility ... or at least as much utility as a suboptimal attack strategy will allow.
Said suboptimal attack strategy is also kind of a problem with Multiattack in general. I mean, yeah, I see they were trying to give the Ranger a minor AoE he could do at-will, but the damage for that is just pitiful.

The Ranger is lacking in burst damage, more than anything. Even Swift Quiver doesn't help a ton in that department, it just brings your DPR barely above that of just a Fighter with 4 attacks (plus it's concentration and thus won't stack with Hunter's Mark).

I will say, however, that 5e's Ranger is easily the most evocative flavor-wise. A shame its combat effectiveness doesn't quite match.

Falling Icicle · Aug 9, 2014

The ranger has to use his action to command his pet? Not even a bonus action, his whole action? Wow... that's awful.

Gladius Legis · Aug 9, 2014

Falling Icicle said:
The ranger has to use his action to command his pet? Not even a bonus action, his whole action? Wow... that's awful.

To be fair, that part does get better. Once you get Extra Attack, the beast's attack just replaces one of yours, effectively (and at Lv. 11, it gets 2 attacks for the one you gave up for a net gain). Also at Lv. 7, making your pet Disengage, Dodge, Dash or Help do become bonus actions.

MortalPlague · Aug 9, 2014

In my Tyranny of Dragons playtest, the ranger had the highest damage output of the whole group. She was reliably hitting for lots of damage, right up until a dragon ate her. It was a TPK, mind you, against a wildly superior foe...

The new PCs have a ranger too (different player), and she's doing plenty of damage, hitting often, and using spells to good effect. Hunter's mark and lightning arrow are both excellent spells for damage.

For the record, both were hunter rangers with colossus slayer.

Juriel · Aug 9, 2014

Falling Icicle said:
The ranger has to use his action to command his pet? Not even a bonus action, his whole action? Wow... that's awful.

Yes. That makes the most defining quality of Ranger, the animal companion, a dead weight. The pets also have tiny pools of HP and bad AC, so they'll be literal dead weight soon enough.

Psikerlord# · Aug 9, 2014

Gladius Legis said:
To be fair, that part does get better. Once you get Extra Attack, the beast's attack just replaces one of yours, effectively (and at Lv. 11, it gets 2 attacks for the one you gave up for a net gain). Also at Lv. 7, making your pet Disengage, Dodge, Dash or Help do become bonus actions.

Hmmm even the bonus action help isnt that good, since it only gives adv on a single attack. If youre twf you could just use yr bonus action to attack... the main pet adv is extra target/bag of hp, isnt it? I dont have the phb, but presumably there are spells to buff the pet, or use it to scout, etc..? And rangers are typically very stealthy, so they have that over fighters. Im guessing their spells are a significant part of their effectiveness in combat and out.