D&D 5E Let's list the "broken" spells

Pickles JG · Sep 1, 2014

TheSleepyKing said:
Technically, it's a little broken as well, since an Elf caster (who only needs 4 hours for a long rest) could cast it, rest to get their 9th level slot back, and still have four hours of free awesomeness

One rest per 24 hours so the PCs really need to be controlling the tempo for this to work.

Joe Liker · Sep 2, 2014

TheSleepyKing said:
Technically, it's a little broken as well, since an Elf caster (who only needs 4 hours for a long rest) could cast it, rest to get their 9th level slot back, and still have four hours of free awesomeness

A long rest is not defined by the amount of time you spend sleeping. It is defined as 8 hours of downtime, which may or may not include sleep, no matter what race you are. In fact, as far as I know, there are no penalties mentioned anywhere for lack of sleep. So technically, I guess no one ever has to sleep.

But one thing is certain: Elves need the same 8 hours of downtime as everyone else to get the benefit of a long rest.

Infinite Karma · Sep 5, 2014

Phantasmal Force, at level 2 looks pretty devastating to me.

First of all, it's an Int save, and one of the only Int save spells in the book. Plenty of beasts and such are going to auto-fail that save. It can make any effect you want, essentially. It can make a phantasmal cage, straight jacket, and gag, which is also full of water. I.e. it takes the target out of the fight. You can attack the target and it will rationalize this as being correct. And it still does 1d6 damage per round.

If not for the Int save, it would be nothing, but that is probably the biggest vulnerability of a lot of scary creatures.

Ba'al · Oct 19, 2014

Joe Liker said:
A long rest is not defined by the amount of time you spend sleeping. It is defined as 8 hours of downtime, which may or may not include sleep, no matter what race you are. In fact, as far as I know, there are no penalties mentioned anywhere for lack of sleep. So technically, I guess no one ever has to sleep.

But one thing is certain: Elves need the same 8 hours of downtime as everyone else to get the benefit of a long rest.

What???
PHB "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours o f sleep."

4 hours trance time = 8 hours sleep. 8 hours sleep (etc.) = long rest. 4 hours trance time = long rest.

Gilwen · Oct 19, 2014

According to Mike Mearls' tweets that is not a correct interpretation.

does Trance allow elves to get the benefit of long rest in 4 hours instead of 8? nope, they still need 8 hours of rest, but spend only 4 of it zonked out. -M

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...rs-Mearls-Crawford#.VAz7kvmwKL1#ixzz3GaHFikHF

Nachti · Oct 19, 2014

"A long rest is a peroid of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity."

Assume a human does sleep 7 hours then spends 1 hour on eating and preparing.

An elf meditates for 4 hours, instead of sleeping.

So you want to tell me that the elf has to spend 4 hours on eating or other light activities to get the same benefit as a human?

Its not logical. Its a decision made for balancing purpose. Nothing else.

Celtavian · Oct 19, 2014

kerbarian said:
Wall of Force says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall." (emphasis added)

It doesn't have any special spell-blocking abilities -- it's an indestructible sheet of glass. That certainly blocks a fireball, but does a sheet of glass block, say, Charm Person? I'm not sure.

With 4E line if effect rules it would, but it's not clear to me that 5E works that way. The spellcasting rules say that you can't target through total cover, but the definition of total cover is also that you're "completely concealed by an obstacle."

It's also notable that similar spells (Leomund's Tiny Hut, Forcecage) explicitly say they block spells, while Wall of Force uses the qualifier that it blocks physical things.

I did not notice a differentiation between physical and anything else in the rules. Where can I find that rule? As far as I know there are not spell descriptors other than school clarification. Physical doesn't mean different from spells as far as I know.

SigmaOne · Oct 19, 2014

Nachti said:
"A long rest is a peroid of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity."

Assume a human does sleep 7 hours then spends 1 hour on eating and preparing.

An elf meditates for 4 hours, instead of sleeping.

So you want to tell me that the elf has to spend 4 hours on eating or other light activities to get the same benefit as a human?

Its not logical. Its a decision made for balancing purpose. Nothing else.

This is about elves, not Vulcans. And anyway, it's not illogical; downtime and sleep (or its equivalent for other races) are not the same thing. Yes, the elf has to relax for another 4 hours.

Paraxis · Oct 19, 2014

What abilities a race has or does not have doesn't change the rule about long rests being 8 hours of light activity.
Right now this just matters to elves, but soon even warforged and tri-kreen when written up with trance like features will be the same way. You may only be asleep for 4 hours, but you still need to perform only light activity for the remaining 4 hours of the long rest to benefit from it. Essentially elves are on watch for half the rest and trance the other.

Joe Liker · Oct 19, 2014

Ba'al said:
What???
PHB "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours o f sleep."

4 hours trance time = 8 hours sleep. 8 hours sleep (etc.) = long rest. 4 hours trance time = long rest.

It does not say anywhere that 8 hours of sleep = long rest. You inferred that, as will most DMs, but it is not written.

D&D 5E Let's list the "broken" spells

Pickles JG

First Post

Joe Liker

First Post

Infinite Karma

Villager

Ba'al

First Post

Gilwen

Explorer

Nachti

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Celtavian

Dragon Lord

SigmaOne

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Paraxis

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Joe Liker

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