5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning
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  1. #1
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    Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

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    Back when 5e was first announced in 2012 I was incredibly thrilled. I loved the game all through the playtest, some iterations of it more than others, but we got the final game back in July of last year. Since then we have the Monster Manual, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and a two-part campaign. But my interest has fallen, my participation in my local Adventurer's League has become sporadic and I'm looking around at other games to play. So here are my Top 5 Reasons why my interest in the game is waning and what Wizards can do to fix it.

    5) Serious Lack of Digital Tools. In this day and age where computers are everywhere, not having some kind of online character generation system is practically a sin. Having the basic rules of the game on a web page is a good first step, but it is not enough. It is kind of hard to accept a game that wants to be the flagship game of the industry that is technologically behind the times. I know this one takes time and personnel (two things the D&D team does not seem to have much of) to fix so it is at the bottom of the list.

    4) No PDFs (except for the basic game). I split this one off from digital tools because that is how important this one is. I live on a computer of some sort or another almost constantly. What don't I carry with me: bookshelves. I want my whole library with me at all times and I have it on my tablet. Except for D&D. So if I am waiting for something, I can just pull out an electronic device and start reading. When I go to local conventions, if I like the game I just go to an online store, purchase it, and download it right there. I can't do that with D&D. This one is the easiest one to fix on the list. PDFs were already made of the books to ship off to the printer, and while I know it is a completely different layout for a PDF instead of a print book, it is still a starting point that other points on this list simply do not have.

    3) Nothing Much to Look Forward To/Lack of Product Diversity. Of all of these, I think I am the most upset about this one. Folks at Wizards have said they want to focus on adventures. Ok fine. Where are they? To date, one came with the beginner's set and there was one campaign in two books. What if I don't want to play in that campaign? What if I want to play something else? The Tomb of Elemental Evil campaign is coming up; what if I don't want that either. What if I know my group can't handle a long campaign and instead want a series of short adventures with the same characters. There are no 32 page stand alone adventures to download, no dungeon magazine to subscribe to. That is game mastering help that the game seriously lacks right now. GMs not getting the help they need will make them look to other games. Personally, I have never been an adventure reader (some people are and more power to them). I have always been a setting reader. There is no setting material for this edition to read. I get a full campaign setting takes a long time to write. But what about a 32 page setting book that told what area is like for the Horde of the Dragon Queen campaign, or the Elemental Evil campaign. I might not run the adventures, but I can use the setting to make my own. Why not that? Without something to fuel my imagination, I am bored and am going to look elsewhere. Now lets have a frank discussion, Wizards has said they want to focus on adventures because releasing too many splat books (specifically books filled with player crunch options) made the system far too heavy for later development and killed it. While I understand that and to a degree agree, you've swung too far the other way. Some players at the table are those optimizers that do not have anything to look forward to and will look elsewhere. All in all, to keep the varying types of players and game masters happy, there has to be a balance. At present, there isn't any balance. All the products out there, beyond the core 3 books, are geared for the long-term GM.

    2) The Waiting. Waiting is not something that our society does well these days and it does not look like it is going to change any time soon. I didn't even bother looking at the Fantasy Flight Star Wars game because it took them 2 years to publish a book on Jedi. I considered giving up on 13th Age but they finally released the PDFs this past December to physical books they released the previous January. You guys, the two and a half year wait from announcement to final game was perfectly fine because I was that excited for it. The wait from PHB to DMG is fine since you were publishing the system. Now that is all done with, I am done with waiting. What is coming? I want to know. 1 campaign isn't cutting it. Tell us what you are working on.

    1) No OGL (or some kind of compatible license). The above points could be fixed if there was some kind of license for other companies to use. You could focus on long campaigns if other companies could write the short adventures. I could run my own game and invite those that do not play (and they would in turn buy the PHB) if I had some 5e compatible setting to keep my interest and could read it anywhere since I got it in PDF. Someone could even turn the rules into an app, meaning you don't have to. And best of all, I could have it now, to get me over the dry hump while I'm waiting for your book. Do you think that if I bought a compatible book on elves that I wouldn't largely ignore it, if not completely ignore it, when your book on elves comes out. But it gets me some racial development to cover the meantime. All the problems I see right now could be fixed with the rules being OGL. All of them. The worst part is that, you had over 2 years to prepare for the launch. You could have hand picked several publishers to release compatible books timed with your other releases for your game. But instead you wanted the initial time frame completely your own. And now I am looking elsewhere.

    So that is my reasons why my interest in D&D is waning right now. How is your interest in D&D 5e? Leave your thoughts in the comments below.
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  2. #2
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    Not a single one of those things impacts my enjoyment of 5th edition. Not even, like, remotely. Lucky me, I guess.

    If waiting for adventures is particularly troubling you, then use some from the past 40 years of D&D. They're still perfectly acceptable.
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    Good points. I might have ordered them differently. And I care more about 3rd party support than the OGL per se. But yes.

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    All good points. To me (and especially my players) #3 is the biggest detractor from this edition.

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    Wait. So, you're a publisher who makes Pathfinder products, and so we should take your problems with 5e seriously?

    To address your points:

    5) I am quite certain that something on this front will be announced soon.

    4) Not everyone cares about pdfs. You do, because you sell them. They've been releasing some stuff on D&D Classics, and I would not be surprised at them eventually releasing 5e stuff there, too. But in all probability there will be a delay, as Brick and Mortar game stores are central to WotC's business model.

    3) Wizards has other D&D stuff in the works. We know this. We also know that the dates have slipped for a couple of their releases lately. ( DMG + Elemental Evil) I suspect this is at the core of why they're being quiet about future releases.

    2) They've put out 5 hardcover books, plus a couple of other releases in - what - seven months. That's a pretty quick release cycle. I also wish they'd communicate a bit more about what's in the works, but am willing to cut them some slack here.

    1) They've said they're working on it. Have some patience, man.


    I am loving the heck out of 5e. I'm running one campaign, and pondering running a second at the same time. I've *never* thought about running two campaigns at once in any other version of D&D. That speaks volumes, for me.
    Last edited by Fildrigar; Wednesday, 18th February, 2015 at 06:32 PM. Reason: YOUR YOU'RE
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebulous View Post
    Not a single one of those things impacts my enjoyment of 5th edition. Not even, like, remotely. Lucky me, I guess.

    If waiting for adventures is particularly troubling you, then use some from the past 40 years of D&D. They're still perfectly acceptable.
    I'm in the same boat. I already have shelves full of stuff I can use with this game if I don't want to make my own stuff. And I'm still quite enjoying the playing the game.

    I get that some want new shinies for the game, I'm just not part of that audience.

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    5) Serious Lack of Digital Tools.
    I have no interest in paying a monthly fee for a character maker and others have done a decent job of a virtual table top.
    I'd rather they make a good game instead and let 3rd party people focus on digital anything.

    4) No PDFs (except for the basic game).
    I've given up on this one. They see it as too easily stolen, and very few consumers will buy anything with a DRM setup.

    3) Nothing Much to Look Forward To/Lack of Product Diversity.
    I'd rather they just put out generic options that have no special world in mind.
    I like very few of the published worlds, so I'd prefer they make it easy for me to deal with my worlds.

    2) The Waiting.
    I think they made a mistake on slowly releasing products.
    4E fell flat quickly with less and less books being bought, so I think they're afraid to pump out book after book in 5E and repeat history.
    But it feels like the 5E community is very hungry for more and they're missing their window if people move on.

    1) No OGL (or some kind of compatible license).
    It needs to happen and soon.
    A "Strike while the iron is hot" kind of thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamon View Post
    I'm in the same boat. I already have shelves full of stuff I can use with this game if I don't want to make my own stuff. And I'm still quite enjoying the playing the game.

    I get that some want new shinies for the game, I'm just not part of that audience.
    Not to mention the play test material did adaptations for a bunch of old modules, which are all pretty close to the finalized 5E rules.

    Trit

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    While all of those are true, none of them change the fun I'm having with the game.

    5. I don't need a digital character generator, because chargen is so much improved (streamlined; individuated) over the past two editions (in my experience of play; not throwing rocks, etc. etc.)

    4. No PDFs doesn't affect me at the table, and I like books. The pdf we have is a great reference for rules, and it's much richer as a FREE tool than I have an y right to expect.

    3. This is a bonus -- everyone at the table has the same set of options, and we're not being splatted to death with power creep. The core books of the game have been out for TWO MONTHS at this point. We have PLENTY of diversity with what we have, and I know I am finding new things in the rules all the time.

    2. What are you waiting for? While waiting, I play the game. Time goes quicker that way. Really, this seems no different than point 3 to me.

    1. I would like there to be an OGL, because openness and sunshine are nice things to have in my life. But no company is obliged to give away their profit-generating IP. I may not like the business model, but it doesn't change my ability to make great things to add to the game if I want them, to use that of others, or to stick to the published rules.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trit One-Ear View Post
    Not to mention the play test material did adaptations for a bunch of old modules, which are all pretty close to the finalized 5E rules.

    Trit
    I just picked up Scourge of the Sword Coast, and it's great. Easily as good ( probably slightly better, as the town is larger and more detailed) as Lost Mines of Phalandrin, and it's going to take very minimum of convertion to be fully playable.

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