Gecko85
Explorer
Fair enough. Both games used 2e rules. I recently re-played BG on the iPad, and I'm currently re-playing BG2 (also on the iPad). I highly recommend both, even if they do have Magic-R-Us marts.
D&D 5E What's the point of gold?
Remathilis
Legend
Well, was magic invented yesterday?
The typical D&D world is old. A world that can measure it's age in elven or dragon lifetimes is old enough to evolve. The typical D&D world has seen stone evolve into bronze into iron into steel. It saw wood armor be replaced by chain and plate. Barter was replaced by coins. It saw the rise of crossbows and even firearms. Yet while all this was happening, no spellcaster, hedge mage or priest thought to begin large scale production of magic lanterns?
My point isn't that a D&D world will become Eberron one day, it's that it should be there NOW.
Jester David
Hero
It makes some sense that in-world people would be concerned about success, tactics, and survival. But they wouldn't view things from the same top down perspective as us. And, really, they might view friendship more highly. Or even the availability of an equally skilled individual.
Jester David
Hero
Eberron is pretty cool as a world, but it's certainly not a good baseline.
The "magic as technology" theory assumes that magic was static for the duration of history as well, and wasn't being refined and adjusted over the years. That it took years to refine spells into a controllable state.
And it assumes mages are common enough to share knowledge and regularly pass along knowledge. And that mages have an interest in selling items and gaining material wealth. If they want to hoard their power it only care about knowledge they're unlikely to sell magic. And that they're not going to be burned at the stake when they reveal their magic lantern.
There's also economics to be considered. Magic lanterns are cool, but if they're significantly more expensive than oil lanterns then no one will buy.
Remathilis
Legend
And yet people insist magical item shops and cloaks of displacement on demand are feasible.
Henry
Autoexreginated
I disagree - the rich will buy them every time, as will successful businesses, because you could make them 1000gp a pop and they're still cost effective - to the second or third generation. It's not like machines or software, and they break or go obsolete - that magic lantern is till burning 100 years later.Jester Canuck said:
Jester David
Hero
Assuming a lamp is used for six hours each day, it costs 1sp to operate and 37gp every year.
A continual flame spell requires 50gp in components, but the caster is not likely working at cost (especially if their skills are rarer). So the magic lamp might be 75gp. More if there is a middle man or merchant. 100gp would not be unreasonable.
So asking someone to buy a magic lamp is asking them to invest in something that will break even after three years. That's more long term than many people think.
The very rich might buy, but it would be a luxury.
In a world with lots of low level spellcasters (Eberron) the service costs become cheaper and the break-even point is reduced Tia year. In a world where class levels are rare, it's more expensive.
Why do you leap to that conclusion?
Why should worlds with unrelated histories evolve at the same rate? History isn't linear; societies don't always advance.
On this very planet, we see cultures that evolved at different rates. China had an amazing period of time in which they invented gunpowder, clockwork automatons and all kinds of things that eventually trickled to the West.
Similarly, rhinoplasty was invented in Egypt @3500 BC, and the modern version was perfected in ancient India @850BC.
And yet, when the Europeans returned to China centuries later, the Chinese culture had stagnated so much that they thought the gunpowder weapons, pasta and automatons they brought with them were Western innovations. And despite having a 1000+ year headstart on sophisticated surgery, India fell behind the West.
Why do societies progress at different rates?
Natural disasters. Politics. Wars. Supression by religion. Support by religion. Scarcity & abundance of resources. Human insight & curiosity.
Henry
Autoexreginated
I'll even go so far as to say there WILL be magic item sales,just using our own world as an example, in a burgeoning black market if nothing else. No magic emporiums, mind you, but magic could be highly illegal, and you'd still find a few dozen items with a local dealer if you have the streetwise know-how to ask.
Just as on the real world you can probably find SLAVES for sale in any major city if you know where to look, and certainly things like Heroin, or fully automatic rifles, in a fantasy setting, if magic items exist, and sentients want to buy them, you WILL find something for sale, if the DM decides he wants a "realistic" world. Me, I'd have as much fun or more forcing people who want to buy magic items to deal with shady underworld types and getting involved with the fringes of the law.
Thanks to those magic item tables, i'd just roll up a half dozen items per city or town and set prices by rarity just to say there's something to buy. So every month the roster cha ges if the PCs are based in one city, or if they move a lot then just start trading items between city lists, to represent commerce, and delete and add a few to change it up.
"Whaddaya mean that wand of fire is in Scornubel now?? Pick up, ladies and gents, we leave tomorrow! Since we took out that ogre cave and split the hoard, I want my chance at that thing before it winds up in the Cormyrean markets!"
