D&D 5E D&D 5th Edition Will Fail

::::finds his arrow voice modulator:::

you have failed 5th edition

ren1999 said:

I posted this same thing after the core books were released for 4th Edition.

But the reason 5th Edition will fail, is different.

Here are the reasons, just read to the end before you dismiss me, remove my post, and warn and ban me.

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Looks like you're fine for now. Although admitting that you posted a thread that was intended to bring out the worst in people probably wasn't the greatest of ideas.

The 5th Edition game system is a step in the right direction in many ways except..

Skills still suck. Proficiency and Expertise in actual game play isn't functioning well.

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Can you elaborate? I've found that proficiency and expertise function very well, especially when bringing new players into the fold. Having a flat number to assign to everything you're proficient in works wonders for setup time, especially when it comes to skills. And I like the number and use of the skills. There's a few that could have used a little work, such as medicine, but they all seem to follow a good pattern, and work as intended. If you don't like them there's always modifications in the DMG.

The spell system still contains a bloated unorganized list of spells, many which do the same things. The spell slots are dumb, spell points are better.

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Can you elaborate as to why spell points are better? Spell lists and slots seem easier to balance, so that's likely why they went with that, and the idea of buffing spells by spending a higher slot was an excellent idea and eliminated a lot of bloat from the spells. And it is organized, simply in alphabetical order and by class, which I think is probably the most streamlined for most people.

Actual game play is smooth, quick, but boring.

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Again would you mind elaborating? I don't see how it's any different from others.

One way to fix this is to have a called shot system and detailed feats ala "Savage Worlds".

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How would simply having a called shot system fix the entire edition and all of the combat?

Automatic hits and damage sucks. It kills the game.

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Can you elaborate? Automatic hits? Damage sucks? There's no substance to this sentence.

No rolls, such as in some spells, suck.

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Which spells are you referring to?

Now these are all minor reasons why the game will fail.

But the main reason is the company that produces the game.

1.) The attitude that the writers of the adventures don't playtest the adventures. That will kill the game.

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Is this just a feeling you have or do you have some evidence that they didn't playtest? Because although I did find HotDQ and RoT to be rather lackluster, Princes of the Apocalypse is just truly excellent. I think with the earlier ones they simply wrote it before the system itself was finished, which wasn't the greatest of ideas.

2.) No digital tools. And the attitude that nobody needs digital tools, just use pen and paper. ..wrong.

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They don't have digital tools yet, true, but they've never stated that people should just use pen and paper. In fact, they seem like they're actively trying to get digital tools, but such things take longer than most people realize.

3.) Dependance on Third Parties to provide all the adventure modules. We just finished playing the 2 official modules and -- agreed, they aren't well written. Many contrivances, plot holes, NPCs we don't have any reason to care about.

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Yes, I agree with you, they weren't terribly well written. RoT was a slight step up, but again, I encourage you to take a look at Princes when it comes out (or if you're near a Wizards Play Network store). It's much improved, which may be from either the new writer, Rich Baker, or because it had more time to be written. Either way, the team that they have now is simply not equipped to write adventures at all, but Sasquatch seems to be getting on the right track.

4.) The disorganized and ugly formating of the books. The poor quality of the material and construction of the books. Shameful and a critical reason why the game will fail.

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Can you elaborate? Everyone I've known has agreed they are likely the finest quality RPG books ever written. There was a batch where the binding failed, but that isn't the fault of Wizards, and there were a number of Pathfinder Core Rulebooks that had the same issue as well.

5.) Silence from the company that makes 5th edition. Cancelling books and giving them out free. A sure sign of failure. Just look at all the 4th edition adventures and material that was given out free on game day.

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Canceling books and then giving them out for free will make the edition fail? It's actually a great marketing ploy: Tease them with the player options, then suck them in to the adventure module. This is in no way a "sure sign of failure" and I'm curious why you think so.


Look, I'm not naive. I know that you're simply trying to get people to respond to your obviously inflammatory remarks, especially on a forum strictly about 5E. But I welcome discussion and criticism about a game I love, and if you're truly interested in having a conversation, feel free to expand on your comments above. Otherwise, this thread will likely be shut down, which might not be the worst thing to happen either.

In response to the OP, I dont get it. 5e is already a big success. And I expect that success to only grow if they release an OGL so talented 3rd parties can make adventures and rules books and settings to grow it further.

So sick of these posts. 5E has brought a ton of people back who havent played in 10-20 years like myself and my players and new players to D&D. 5E is and will continue to be a big success.

ren1999 said:

I was foolish.

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Posting trollish questions on 2 boards and you wonder why you get a bad response? I think this last sentence is truer than you intended.

Ren, I've always had the sense that D&D was not the game you wanted to play; it never met your vision. I hope you luck with they system you do enjoy.

As for 5E, it's clearly been a success - for now. But if the designers intend for it to have staying power, its going to need one very important ingredient: A reason to keep playing. That means new material and new blood, in some form or fashion.

Personally, I hope it comes in the form of adventures. Not AP length adventures, but smaller one-shots that *could* be linked together. Something on the order of 3E's Forge of Fury. Sure, you could use it as a follow-up to Sunless Citadel, but you didn't have to. And you weren't locked into running The Speaker in Dreams next.

JRedmond said:

So sick of these posts. 5E has brought a ton of people back who havent played in 10-20 years like myself and my players and new players to D&D. 5E is and will continue to be a big success.

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Same. I got back involved and my group got back involved. Of the seven players (they come when they can) only two played a 3rd, 3.5 or 4th edition, one has never played a version of DnD, and the other four haven't played since the mid-90s. I hear this quite a bit while I'm reading my books or prepping sessions "Is that D&D? I haven't played since" and the year is almost always about the time of the second edition bloat or third edition launch.

People are intrigued by a lean system that still has what they remember enjoying.

Okay.

If it fails, I'll likely get a couple years of fun out of it before it does. Then I'll try the new edition.

If it doesn't, I guess I'll keep playing this one.

ren1999 said:

So I played around a bit and came up with a Savage Worlds / D&D hybrid. But I'm bored with the whole project.

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I find it amusing that not only did 5E, Pathfinder, and 13th Age all fail you... your own RPG you designed for yourself failed you too. You can't seem to win.