D&D 5E Why is WOTC so awful at providing digital content?

Derren · Apr 4, 2015

Remathilis said:
5.) Contrary to popular belief, D&D is not an easy thing to code. Sure, it looks simple on paper, but having a character generator that can effectively allow anything (in terms of either future content or worse, user-created content) yet remain stable, auto calculating, and functional is a tall order. 2e's Core Rule's 2.0 + Expansion is perhaps the best D&D software ever made, and even with the expansion allowing custom classes, lots of workarounds, limitations, and "note this on your sheet" stuff.

I think you overestimate the complexity of the D&D rules.
Sure 5Es "rulings not rules" philosophy does't translate well into a program. But eralier editions were well suited for it as they were deterministic. The Temple of Elemental Evil PC game in the 3E area was very close to the PnP rules, so it is certainly possible to code it. It just that WotC/Hasbro doesn't want to spend enough money to hire people who can do it and are also averse to other forms of contend creation and financing (fan creations or Kickstarter) and are actively blocking them.

Compare that for example to Shadowrun. Sure, someone will likely soon come in and throw around some degratory terms about how SR is so unimportant that they do not need "to protect their IP" like Hasbro does, but Shadowrun has several fan created online tools which work very well (for example the character creator Chummer) which is xml based and very modular.
And everyone who plays Shadowrun would agree that this rules system is a lot more complex than D&D.

Umbran · Apr 4, 2015

transtemporal said:
Nah. Universities in the States, Europe, Russia, Asia, India churn out grads with business/computer science degrees by the 100s of thousands per year.

For one element of design I was speaking about (user interaction design), neither of those degrees are of any help whatsoever. Good UX people are still rare, which accounts for why so many applications and web pages are clumsy to use.

The use case is different - there aren't many instances of folks wanting to interact with their device as part of interacting with people. All those newly minted grads who have never so much as played a game, much less who are well-informed fans, are going to be notably less effective, as they won't understand the use case.

Its not a trivial development, but its not cutting edge stuff either.

The difficulty of a programming task is not merely about how close to the edge of tech you are. I think you are seriously underestimating the difficulty in making an application 1) Properly implement the rules as written and 2) open to nigh arbitrary house rules. This isn't about edge, it is about data structure design, which can be hairy even on well-understood technology.

pickin_grinnin · Apr 4, 2015

Umbran said:
The problem is that a firm solid enough to be really reliable will likely cost more than they can afford to pay. Anything else... well, amateurs screw things up.

Bingo.

They could always put some developers on staff, since there is an ongoing need for such things, but I doubt they can afford that, either.

If they would open things up and give people free or inexpensive licenses, something useful might arise from the chaff, but they aren't going to do that.

SilentBoba · Apr 4, 2015

It seems to be an issue of scope. WotC seemed like it wanted to go all in with a digital initiative, but either doesn't or can't pay for the level of development needed to get to that point. I wish they would start smaller, frankly. Provide some bare bones tools and expand upon them as interest grows. An online and comprehensive crosslinked reference would be good, and could be something they charge for. A character builder would be good, and could provide names of abilities and feats, but feed into the paid reference if someone really wants access to online rules. The possibilities are there to go in a number of paid and free directions.

But they're choosing none of the above. It's an online world. Asking people to sit around a table for a completely offline game is difficult, but when nearly all of its competitors are online at least in terms of PDF's if not full-blown player aids, that may be asking too much.

I think 5E is a better ruleset than any previous edition or Pathfinder. The rules themselves are the way they should have distinguished themselves from the competition. Distinguishing themselves by not being digital friendly is a choice they're going to regret if they don't change their minds soon.

pickin_grinnin · Apr 4, 2015

To be honest, I would just be happy if I could use HeroLab to create D&D characters.

UngainlyTitan · Apr 4, 2015

I mostly agree with Umbran in this thread, but someone mentioned that publishing is very waterfall process it also is one where usability is not really thought about but there is a lot of focus on the layout of individual things.
This is reflected in all Wotc web sites,where each page looks lovely but the site usability sucks.
Personally I like Roll20 as a VTT, since it requires no special installs, does a minimum needed to do and has a relatively easy learning curve.
What I want electronically from Wizards is a player and dm digital version of the map, location images and the same for handouts and a bunch of images the I could use as tokens for monsters in any popular VTT.
I would buy that.

Beleriphon · Apr 4, 2015

Derren said:
I think you overestimate the complexity of the D&D rules.
Sure 5Es "rulings not rules" philosophy does't translate well into a program. But eralier editions were well suited for it as they were deterministic. The Temple of Elemental Evil PC game in the 3E area was very close to the PnP rules, so it is certainly possible to code it. It just that WotC/Hasbro doesn't want to spend enough money to hire people who can do it and are also averse to other forms of contend creation and financing (fan creations or Kickstarter) and are actively blocking them.

The problem isn't the state of the current rules, its the fact that down the line there will have to be extra stuff added. So the question is more one of how do we go about adding that extra stuff? You can do a complete software patch, you could do an update to the existing data sets (like HeroLab), you could do any number of things. The problem is more one of which do we pick, and what option is going to be best for the needs of the client. That can also mean what option is least expensive, and easiest implement in the long term, and what what features you want the actual rules data to interact with in a piece of software.

Any guy with Excel and some time can probably bodge together a character generator because all they're doing is entering the data and picking how Excel interacts with the data. But that's using Microsoft programmers decades of experience to built the actual interface (which is still spreadsheet software) and the actual interaction of the data sets. If you start trying to build your own custom interface and data set interaction things get way more complicated if you want to easily allow people to update to new info and add their own stuff. The rules aren't the problem, its the long term scalability of the software that really causes issues.

fjw70 · Apr 4, 2015

I am not that interested on electronic tools but I must say that the 4e compendium with the iPad app to access it was really useful while DMing 4e.

In additon to pdfs I would really like 5e monster cards.

aramis erak · Apr 4, 2015

The tools needed largely already exist... All WotC needs to do is provide an inexpensive (but not of need free) semi-open license to the text, and watch the competition arise.

Such a license should specify the interchange format for characters, classes, backgrounds, races, feats, and spells. Not banning other formats, but specifying an interchange format that WotC can put new content out in for end users to import.

Jester David · Apr 4, 2015

Honestly, all I would like from WotC is PDFs of the books and PDF packages of things like maps and art.

I want to be able to download a single ZIP file with all the monsters in the Monster Manual (not individually download a third of the monsters) and buy a single cheap PDF with all the maps of an adventure (both player and GM) rather than buying them from the cartographers for a price higher than the physical book.

I don't need a character builder or app or the like, not for this edition. A monster builder would be cool, but things are more free form that I don't think one would be accurate.

D&D 5E Why is WOTC so awful at providing digital content?

Derren

Hero

Umbran

Mod Squad

pickin_grinnin

Explorer

SilentBoba

First Post

pickin_grinnin

Explorer

UngainlyTitan

Legend

Beleriphon

Totally Awesome Pirate Brain

fjw70

Adventurer

aramis erak

Legend

Jester David

Hero

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