5E Why does 5E SUCK? - Page 179
  1. #1781

    Why does 5E SUCK?

    Edit: doublepost
    Last edited by Josiah Stoll; Tuesday, 2nd October, 2018 at 12:18 AM.

  2. #1782
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallifer View Post
    I do not see what that has to do with the 5E rules. That sounds like the adventures a dungeon master chooses to create OR the personality of the players. Does the dungeon master provide NPCs to talk to and interesting cultures to explore? Do the players talk to new NPCs and take time to explore, or do they just kill everything and take their stuff?
    I am our groupís DM most of the time, but Iím new to the hobby (senior in high school, started playing as an 8th grader, never had the opportunity to play under an experienced DM) and itís been hard to create encounters that are interesting, different, and provide everyone a good opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way.
    If I play disallowing metagame social skills, the Bards/Sorcs/Warlocks are the only ones who get to do stuff; and if I allow out of game social skills to influence events, the most charismatic player hogs screentime.

    Iíve looked online for advice on how to make the game more interesting in and out of combat (phb and dmg are kinda worthless at giving DM advice) but the responses that Iíve gotten have been:
    Do funny voices out of combat
    (My voice is kinda raspy, so everyone sounds kinda like Batman)
    Vary monster tactics in combat
    (Do you mean monster attack descriptions? Most low level monsters only have one or two viable combat strategies)
    Figure out how to put the Fighterís piss-poor skills to use
    (The amount of doors this poor guy has to push open...)
    Add little details that make the world more fleshed out
    (This oneís actually pretty good, unfortunately itís something I picked up from reading 1d4 chan, 4e stuff, and the Pathfinder Bestiary. All of which can be found for less than $40)
    WotC seems to think that random tables are the best way to do worldbuilding, but every English/Writing/Drama course Iíve taken suggests otherwise.
    Iíll start a thread dedicated to advice-getting, but I canít find the button to do so.
    XP Tallifer gave XP for this post

  3. #1783
    Sorry about the double post.

  4. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josiah Stoll View Post
    Iíll start a thread dedicated to advice-getting, but I canít find the button to do so.
    Go to D&D 5th Edition Forum. There is a button that says Post New Thread. It is right above the block of text that says
    Forum: *D&D 5th Edition Discuss D&D 5E rules and products or post your own creations for others to share. Also for discussion about the D&D Adventurers league (DDAL). Character builds and NPCs belong in the Character Builds & Optimization forum.
    Laugh Josiah Stoll laughed with this post

  5. #1785
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallifer View Post
    Go to D&D 5th Edition Forum. There is a button that says Post New Thread. It is right above the block of text that says Forum: *D&D 5th Edition

    Discuss D&D 5E rules and products or post your own creations for others to share. Also for discussion about the D&D Adventurers league (DDAL). Character builds and NPCs belong in the Character Builds & Optimization forum.
    Thank you!

  6. #1786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josiah Stoll View Post
    I am our groupís DM most of the time, but Iím new to the hobby (senior in high school, started playing as an 8th grader, never had the opportunity to play under an experienced DM) and itís been hard to create encounters that are interesting, different, and provide everyone a good opportunity to contribute in a meaningful way.
    If I play disallowing metagame social skills, the Bards/Sorcs/Warlocks are the only ones who get to do stuff; and if I allow out of game social skills to influence events, the most charismatic player hogs screentime.

    Iíve looked online for advice on how to make the game more interesting in and out of combat (phb and dmg are kinda worthless at giving DM advice) but the responses that Iíve gotten have been:
    Do funny voices out of combat
    (My voice is kinda raspy, so everyone sounds kinda like Batman)
    Vary monster tactics in combat
    (Do you mean monster attack descriptions? Most low level monsters only have one or two viable combat strategies)
    Figure out how to put the Fighterís piss-poor skills to use
    (The amount of doors this poor guy has to push open...)
    Add little details that make the world more fleshed out
    (This oneís actually pretty good, unfortunately itís something I picked up from reading 1d4 chan, 4e stuff, and the Pathfinder Bestiary. All of which can be found for less than $40)
    WotC seems to think that random tables are the best way to do worldbuilding, but every English/Writing/Drama course Iíve taken suggests otherwise.
    Iíll start a thread dedicated to advice-getting, but I canít find the button to do so.
    You have been receiving some reaaaaallllllyyyy bad advice.
    XP guachi gave XP for this post
    Laugh Josiah Stoll laughed with this post

  7. #1787
    Quote Originally Posted by cmad1977 View Post
    You have been receiving some reaaaaallllllyyyy bad advice.
    I pretty much figured that out.
    Could you point me towards some better stuff?
    XP Erechel gave XP for this post

  8. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josiah Stoll View Post
    I pretty much figured that out.
    Could you point me towards some better stuff?
    Damn cellphone! I didn't want to give experience nor laugh. I only wanted to quote.
    My best advice is: go for Angry GM.
    As for improving games, the best thing you can do is to play the three pillars balanced. First of all, there is one (big) difference between the three of them: complexity. Whereas most combats include a minimum degree of tactics and has at least the relative complexity of skill checks and result checks (attack roll and damage dice, until you drop the enemy to 0), most GMs strive to make challenges outside combat that don't end in a single check, even with idiotic rerolls until you succeed.
    The main issue there is to make complex tasks out of skill checks. I'm not talking about the Skill Challenges of 4th edition: I'm talking of actual challenges with consequences, both in failure and in success. Let's take for example a hostage negotiation, a perfect mixture between Exploration, Combat and Social Interaction. You know that the goblins will not deliver their prisoners, because if they do, they are as good as dead. A single check will not suffice to convince them to deliver. A simple bribe will not work. They are hostile, but not necessarily aggressive, because they are surrounded, and they know it. They are in a well fortified location. The goblins will be killing a hostage each hour until the soldiers and adventurers are gone. If the characters begin a killing spree, or if even a single goblin is taken, they will kill the hostage.
    More later
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  9. #1789
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    Repost, sorry.

  10. #1790
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    The challenge could be managed in three possible ways: either by a series of social skills, or by stealth, or by a combination of the two of them. Combat will result in a characters' victory, but the hostages will be killed.
    Stealth will work up to a point. Coordination is key: it isn't a big facility, just a fortified warehouse or mill. You need intelligence to know the patrol routines and weak spots, and communication (each check will reveal a possible path, a failure also reveals path,but at stealth is at disadvantage). More time assigned to Intelligence allows a new roll, but at the risk of a goblin killing a hostage. You may both use a dice to randomize the Int gathering time in minutes (1d4x15 minutes each observation), or assign a "time point". Two "time points" and a hostage is killed. Each stealth check takes the characters closer to the goblins, and takes 10 minutes (or half a time point). A failure in the checks means the goblins swarm against the infiltrator or take a hostage. You need at least 3 characters in the right spots, or the goblins still could kill the hostages. And at least 1 path leads to the ceiling, so you need an Athletics check also to climb.
    With Social skills, you could fast talk the goblins. First, you need to soften them. A Charm spell won't work, as the leader is never in the line of sight, and any decision is measured in minutes, not seconds or rounds. You need talkers. You have three main approaches: Persuasion, Intimidation or Deception. Intimidation won't gain the goblins trust, as they expect to be threatened. They fear for their lives, and are desperate. You also need someone to talk in goblin, and hear who takes the decisions, and some info. They won't communicate between them in common, but on their own language. A Perception check is required just to listen, but also comprehending their language. After each info gather, you gain advantage on a social check. For example, you may know the names of the goblins, both to threaten or to persuade. They are aggressive and paranoid, so they are Difficult to interact, and with disadvantage.
    A single check is made to convince them to listen and talk, a second one to buy time, a third to release the injured, and a fourth to make a compromise. A failure means dire consequences. A failed threat may end in a hostage killed, a Deception in losing the trust, and thus reinitiate the negotiations, and Persuasion carries no consequences, but it is harder.
    After a few failures, the goblins may kill all the hostages and die, or the goblins may try to buy time themselves while their sappers dig a hole to escape, etc.
    A combined a effort between stealth and silver tongue may increase chances, both to negotiate from a position of strength, or to distract the goblins to facilitate the stealth.
    That is a simple encounter, designed hastily to reflect how skills and pillars other than combat work very well within the rules of 5e. It's a matter of options and consequences, and a little ingenuity.
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