Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

I'm A Banana · Jun 29, 2015

Dannyalcatraz said:
Answer: they're not all for you. There's a reason why Baskin Robbins has hundreds of flavors (and only has 31 offered at any one time). Ditto Paciugo gelato.

Whoever they're for, that person is in the same boat I am more often than not: right in the middle of eating something they enjoy already.

That is what the free market is for.

...I understand that this is why 5e is being cautious about new stuff that adds bloat. The last 15 years, the free market has said we will buy chocolate and vanilla and maybe some peanut butter and not much really after that, certainly not enough of it to afford making inventive new flavors just for the sake of variety.

What I think mearls & co are trying to do is make these new products so that the market will eat more of them (maybe giving you a pumpkin ice cream as part of a halloween promotion!) and so they won't go broke inventing new flavors and have to open up a new ice cream shop in 8 years that sells only Vanilla and Chocolate again.

steeldragons · Jun 29, 2015

bogmad said:
Just spitballing, but maybe you could even portray possible psionic effects in tables to cut down on space?
E.g. Here's a table for the telekinetic discipline with different effects that can be generated and their corresponding power point cost

OO! Brain-burp!

Clairvoyance Powers:

For each PP spent, the Seer can remotely view an area up to 20' away. For every additional 5' distance and/or each sense added to the viewing (hearing, feeling,...tasting?) the seer spends an additional PP.
The Seer can use powers that duplicate any spell with the Divination descriptor found in the Basic Rules/PHB at a cost of 1 PP per spell level per round.

Telepathy Powers:

For each PP spent, the Telepath can send or receive a silent mentally conveyed message to/from a single mind up to 20' away. For every additional mind and/or 5' distance the telepath spends an additional PP.
The Telepath can use powers that duplicate any spell with the Enchantment or Illusion descriptor found in the Basic Rules/PHB at a a cost of 1 PP per spell level per round.

Telekinetic Powers:

For each PP spent, the Teke can mentally manipulate materials up to 10 lbs. up to 20' distant. For every additional 5 lbs. and/or 5' distance/area covered the teke spends an additional PP.
The Teke can use powers that duplicate any spell with the Evocation or Abjuration descriptor found in the Basic Rules/PHB at a a cost of 1 PP per spell level per round. All damage and effects specified in the spell descriptions is, instead, changed to force or bludgeoning damage.
Teke Variant/Alternate: the powers of the telekinetic are bound to a single energy type: fire, ice, lightning, and all effects and damage are extensions of those energy types instead of the type specified in the spell description

I like collaboration.

...all assuming, of course, they base things on a PP system.

EDIT: In addition to whatever base- and sub-class features are built in, obviously.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 29, 2015

The last 15 years, the free market has said we will buy chocolate and vanilla and maybe some peanut butter and not much really after that, certainly not enough of it to afford making inventive new flavors just for the sake of variety.

And yet, companies- even mainstream ones- still find it quite profitable to produce flavors other than the big 3. There's enough money in the niches to make it worth their while. (They DO have to taste good to someone, though, so the flavors aren't entirely arbitrary.)

Why? Because the market is mature and saturated with sellers of the main flavors. Delivering new flavors- even if they aren't inherently profitable- work like advertising: they set you apart in the marketplace. I can get vanilla anywhere, but Texas sea-salt & caramel (actual flavor) is a rare bird, and people who like it will drive miles to get it...and possibly get your vanilla or chocolate at the same time.

A generic psi system may indeed be easier to include, but a solid creatively different may attract players you wouldn't normally get...and because of the free market, it may drive some away as well. Which it will do you can't know until the product is actually out there.

Nifft · Jun 29, 2015

Goddamn it, people. You're making me hungry.

Now I need to go out and buy a pint of psiscream.

- - -

Anyway. If there is an official Psionics release, then I want it to be internally coherent. Like, if attack & defense modes are a thing, then I want all Psi sub-classes to interact with them somehow, and I want them to NOT be an overall penalty for the Psionic character. Not being a penalty is a big change from 1e / 2e; being something other than just power names is a change from 3.5e.

I also want the Psionics system to interact nicely with multi-classing. Magic interacts nicely: I want a Psion / Wizard to be around as well integrated as a Cleric / Wizard or a Sorcerer / Warlock can be.

Beyond that, yeah, not super picky about the details.

GobiWon · Jun 29, 2015

Nifft said:
I also want the Psionics system to interact nicely with multi-classing. Magic interacts nicely: I want a Psion / Wizard to be around as well integrated as a Cleric / Wizard or a Sorcerer / Warlock can be.

I didn't even think about multiclassing. If Psionics, is a point system or a scaled powers based on disciplines how does it even multiclass with a spell caster in 5e?

Nifft · Jun 29, 2015

GobiWon said:
I didn't even think about multiclassing. If Psionics, is a point system or a scaled powers based on disciplines how does it even multiclass with a spell caster in 5e?

1/ Every caster in 5e uses 3.5e Psionics scaling. So that's easy. Just have Psions use spell slots with the same table as every other full caster.

2/ Monks, Warlocks and Sorcerers have non-standard resources, which they use to cast or modify spell slots. So it's possible to use non-standard slots (Warlock), points instead of slots (Monk), or to spend multiple resources on a single casting (Sorcerers).

Hussar · Jun 30, 2015

Remathilis said:
The only way I see this working is if the sorcerer subclass was done as a UA or separate download while full psionics got its own separate release. I can't imagine you, Hussar, or anyone else would be a $40, 130 page rule book on psionics and then only use the last 3 pages of it ever for its sorcerer psion subclass. Odds are, you just won't buy the book, which makes it no different than not having it in the first place. I'm still not sure WotC has the manpower to do psionics once, let alone twice.

If those are my choices, then I'll take the UA version thanks. At least then I'll actually use it.

The more intensive you make Psionics, the less people will use it.

Granted, this is a place were having a bloody OGL would shine. Sigh.

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 30, 2015

Nifft said:
Goddamn it, people. You're making me hungry.

Now I need to go out and buy a pint of psiscream.

Or psilatto?

Remathilis · Jun 30, 2015

Hussar said:
If those are my choices, then I'll take the UA version thanks. At least then I'll actually use it.

If a Sorcerer subclass came out via UA, I'd probably download and forget about it. Whereas a new class, system, or whatever would inspire me to want to make it work in my game.

Hussar said:
The more intensive you make Psionics, the less people will use it.

But the less creative you make psionic, the more it becomes "yet another option" rather than something unique and inspiring.

Hussar said:
Granted, this is a place were having a bloody OGL would shine. Sigh.

Tell me about it...

Vael · Jun 30, 2015

Nifft said:
I also want the Psionics system to interact nicely with multi-classing. Magic interacts nicely: I want a Psion / Wizard to be around as well integrated as a Cleric / Wizard or a Sorcerer / Warlock can be.

This is one that I don't think is doable without something like 3.5 dual progression prestige classes or some kind of multiclassing kludge.

But that's okay. Because if Psionics is different, then a Psion/Wizard would be the equivalent of a 4 Elements Monk multi-classed with ... well, any spellcaster. Even though both are using spells, there isn't a way to progress both of them.

Besides, Sorcerers are only dipping 2 levels of Warlock for the enhanced Eldritch Blast, I doubt a balanced build would really be that effective.

I like 5e multiclassing, but I don't expect it to make every combination viable, and it doesn't.

Mike Mearls on D&D Psionics: Should Psionic Flavor Be Altered?

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