4E Throwing ideas, seeing what sticks (and what stinks) - Page 26
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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
    I thought an idea Tony had was interesting

    One didnt make minions / standards / elites perse...

    The situation of outlevelling enemies allowed you to take unusually risky moves with minions you could easily generate 4x damage with extreme variants of your moves
    Re-post (it's like thread necromancy, but different):

    In 4e, I pulled a trick like we're talking about doing with monsters, but with NPCs, once. In a adventure-within-an-adventure scenario, the regular PCs were trying to obtain the aid of guest-PC wizard, who was semi-retired, running a school, the city's rulers really liked having her around, so they kept adventurers away as much as possible. So there was a whole skill challenge of political maneuvering involved, and, in the middle of it, the guest PC takes some of her students on a dungeon expedition to clear out some Dire Corbies (not even in 4e, AFAIK - they were 2hd monsters back in the day), but it turns out the scouts got it very wrong, and they were Hook Horrors (paragon monsters in 4e).
    So I wanted this combat where the PCs rescue the guest star and her proteges from this case of deadly mistaken identity. A 10-level gap is prettymuch untenable in any - well, any game that uses levels, really, unless it uses hundreds of 'em. But statted as minions (with a trait that allowed they were Dying at 0 hps, so could be saved with timely healing), though, they participated, and the PCs had to make an effort to protect them, but it wasn't a futile effort, because the monsters /could/ actually miss them, and because of all the marking, forced movement, and other forms of control in 4e.

    From that (see I get to my points eventually, you just have to bear with me), I got the idea that it'd be cool to have options for actual to PCs do that sort of thing, stretch to contribute when wildly outclassed, since it's an heroic sorta thing to do. I never more than mused on it, though, but (starting with the premise that PCs are ~equiv to elites), it might look something like:

    Over Your Head: In desperate straights against superior foes, you guard yourself with extra care and don't dare riskier attacks

    • Your attack bonus and all defenses & other level-based checks increase by 5.
    • The first time you are hit, regardless of damage inflicted, you are reduced to your bloodied value, you cannot heal up above bloodied for the rest of the encounter.
    • You cannot use Daily powers.


    Out of Your League: A battle rages beyond your ken, you desperately try to avoid destruction, and put the utmost effort into your most dependable attacks... you have no chance, but you might be able to tilt the balance, just a little, if you're lucky...

    • Your attack bonus and all defenses & other level-based checks increase by 10.
    • When you are hit, regardless of damage inflicted, you are reduced to 0 hps. (Effects that do not take attack rolls damage you normally, and you can be healed.)
    • You cannot use Encounter, Daily or Utility powers, you cannot spend Action Points.



    And, hey, why not go the other way:

    Toying With Them: "I am going to duel him left-handed, otherwise is over too quick." Faced with contemptable foes, you decide to make it interesting, striding unconcerned about the field, and trying showy tricks you wouldn't risk against a real threat.

    • You take a -5 penalty to attacks and all defenses & other level-based checks, but gain a +5 bonus to Saving Throws.
    • You gain temporary hps equal to your maximum hps. The first time you spend a healing surge, you gain temporary hps equal to your surge value, as well.
    • You can use any of your standard-action Encounter Power attacks as a Minor Action, if you choose to use one as a standard action, instead, it is not expended until you use it as a Minor action; your encounter powers that are not standard actions are not expended when used, but can only be used 1/round. When you spend an Action Point, you gain the use of a second, bonus Action Point that you must expend before the end of the Encounter. At the End of the Encounter, you can regain one Daily that you used in it.
    • I can't think of anything right now, but some enhancement to p42 improvised actions might be fun
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  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
    I thought an idea Tony had was interesting

    One didnt make minions / standards / elites perse...

    The situation of outlevelling enemies allowed you to take unusually risky moves with minions you could easily generate 4x damage with extreme variants of your moves
    Yeah, that was another interesting variation.

  3. #253
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    So, what I'm thinking, based on these ideas would be something like this (roughly, I haven't done any math):

    Create a 'damage table' which looks something like this

    -5 -2 0 +2 +5
    defensive 4 3 2 1 1
    normal 6 4 3 2 2
    reckless 8 6 4 3 3







    So, level difference reads 'this much or more' and is calculated as target - attacker. Now, in this system you COULD just do away with defensive (and offensive) level bonus entirely if you want. Or you could have the bonus/penalty types @Tony Vargas has outlined based on your 'tactics'.

    As with @MoutonRustique's idea you would have a fixed 'boxed' hit point total based on your role (or for PCs it might be based on class/race/con, whatever).
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  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbdulAlhazred View Post
    So, what I'm thinking, based on these ideas would be something like this (roughly, I haven't done any math):

    Create a 'damage table' which looks something like this

    -5 -2 0 +2 +5
    defensive 4 3 2 1 1
    normal 6 4 3 2 2
    reckless 8 6 4 3 3







    So, level difference reads 'this much or more' and is calculated as target - attacker. Now, in this system you COULD just do away with defensive (and offensive) level bonus entirely if you want. Or you could have the bonus/penalty types @Tony Vargas has outlined based on your 'tactics'.

    As with @MoutonRustique's idea you would have a fixed 'boxed' hit point total based on your role (or for PCs it might be based on class/race/con, whatever).
    The significantly static hitpoints and potentially bursty damage reminds me of RuneQuest but with the bursts somewhat more under player choice rather fixes the problems it had with not feeling heroic.

  5. #255
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    Did I mention this thread is one of the reasons I want them to get the error fixed for moving threads.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garthanos View Post
    Did I mention this thread is one of the reasons I want them to get the error fixed for moving threads.
    Because its kind of a shame

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