Help with FATE player that likes to make alternate characters

Vaslov · Nov 2, 2015

In my gaming group one of the players likes to make alternate characters and bring them into play. In most systems this isn't a big deal as character creation can be a solo affair. In FATE due to the interactions with others to develop a character bringing in new characters is a bit more disruptive as it takes group game time.

The alternate character building is pretty important to this player's enjoyment of the game and something I am not looking to shut down. The problem is the new characters come in at a rate that both myself and one of the other regular group GMs that would run a FATE game find ourselves hesitating to try anything beyond a one shot. I have been brainstorming ideas how to use FATE for something a bit longer lasting.

My question to the FATE gamers out there is what do you do to integrate new characters into a story mid-tale? While a new main character in a story should be somewhat disruptive how do you keep it from eating an entire session away?

Umbran · Nov 2, 2015

Vaslov said:
In my gaming group one of the players likes to make alternate characters and bring them into play. In most systems this isn't a big deal as character creation can be a solo affair. In FATE due to the interactions with others to develop a character bringing in new characters is a bit more disruptive as it takes group game time.

Some FATE variants have cooperative character building, others do not.

The alternate character building is pretty important to this player's enjoyment of the game and something I am not looking to shut down.

It would be helpful to know what the player feels is so important about building alternate characters. Character building in FATE is not a particularly complex or interesting minigame, in and of itself (as compared to the very complicated building that you can do with a mid-to-high level D&D character, for example). Most FATE variants even allow (and almost encourage) players to start with a character not fully defined, as it gets you to the interesting stuff more quickly.

In some cases, swapping out characters can be a notable issue in a FATE game. It can mean the player dodges the effects of Consequences that they've incurred. And, in addition, sometimes plot developments are based on the "succeeded, but at a cost" results FATE generates are specific to a given character, such that taking the character out of play leaves some developments without meaning for connection to the group.

My question to the FATE gamers out there is what do you do to integrate new characters into a story mid-tale?

Well, the first step is knowing why the player feels the change is necessary.

I would normally suggest that the character building and whatever integration steps you take be done *before* the session in which the new character first sees play.

Vaslov · Nov 3, 2015

Umbran said:
Some FATE variants have cooperative character building, others do not.

Any suggestions on some that do not? Maybe I should explore those a bit. The few I have read do.

Umbran said:
It would be helpful to know what the player feels is so important about building alternate characters.

If I could answer that I would be winning science prizes in psychology for how his mind works. An in table joke is he could befuddle Cthulhu. A true wild mage at heart. When the system is complex he does enjoy tweaking the mechanics, but he also generate multiple characters in simple games. When asked he says he enjoys coming up with character concepts and then bringing that concept to life at the table.

Umbran said:
It can mean the player dodges the effects of Consequences that they've incurred. And, in addition, sometimes plot developments are based on the "succeeded, but at a cost" results ...

Good point. One idea I was playing around with is he comes from some sort of large organization with a variety of members, be it a large religious group, temp agency, guild, family, mob, etc. The other players would make a background story with this group and transcribe the result/impressions to what ever character he brings in. Perhaps in a similar fashion if he checks in a character with an existing condition we would need to sort a condition out for that organization or new character to take on. I am sure he would enjoy coming up with interesting detrimental conditions for himself.

Umbran · Nov 3, 2015

Vaslov said:
Any suggestions on some that do not? Maybe I should explore those a bit. The few I have read do.

Atomic Robo is one. The game assumes the characters all work for an organization, so they don't need the interpersonal ties to work together.

Fate Accelerated also skips the web of interrelation, as it is designed specifically to get you into play super fast.

When asked he says he enjoys coming up with character concepts and then bringing that concept to life at the table.

Ah, one of those - Yes, they come to life, but for a brief moment, only. You might want to remind him that by trying so many concepts, he never gets any *depth* on any of them, or ever really gets to develop any of them. He may have the misconception that playing one character forever is fixing something static. That is definitely not true in FATE games, which are better designed for character development and change than growth.

But that may be neither here nor there - you may not get a tiger to change his stripes.

Most FATE games have the concept of playing in story arcs - you might want to try to get the player to agree that he can only swap out characters at Major Milestones, and not at Minor or Significant Milestones (to use the FATE Core names for them).

One idea I was playing around with is he comes from some sort of large organization with a variety of members, be it a large religious group, temp agency, guild, family, mob, etc. The other players would make a background story with this group and transcribe the result/impressions to what ever character he brings in.

Atomic Robo has just this concept. In that game, you assume the entire group works for the same organization, and it can take Consequences for the party. I wouldn't want to apply that concept directly to a character (for that would allow a character to take too many consequences), but you can imagine that if he has a character leave play with a consequence, then you carry over a consequence of the same level on the new character, but it may be stated as if it were on the organization, just to make the fiction a little cleaner.

Johnny Pickles gets gutshot (is carrying a consequence "gutshot") when he leaves play. The East End Gang sends a new enforcer to work with the group, Jimmy the Fish. However, the East End Gang has to pull some strings to get Johnny patched up without any police attention, so Jimmy comes in with the consequence, "Called in many favors", that if w

Vaslov · Nov 4, 2015

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll take a look at Atomic Robo.

Johnny Pickles. That gave me a laugh.

V

Neonchameleon · Nov 8, 2015

I'm going to say two things.

1: It can be done in either Fate Accelarated or Atomic Robo (or a number of other Fate variants).
2: He's probably not going to like Fate - or if he does it will be because he interacts with it differently to other RPGs. Fate characters aren't full of mechanical widgets to explore (they have a couple - but only a couple).

Herobizkit · Nov 18, 2015

If said player is the type who enjoys tweaking character 'builds', what I feel he's doing is trying out all of the rules for a spin with each new character as an in-game vehicle for a new benefit/complication/whatever.

In MMO's, we call this "Alt-itis". It's when a player re-rolls multiple characters at low-level to check out their various abilities.

Once your player figures out that 'all powers work the same' in FATE, he'll calm down.

That, or maybe he needs to write short stories. Or GM.

Vaslov · Nov 19, 2015

I've been trying to get him to DM for years. I think he would enjoy it and the stories he comes up with would be amazing.

Been toying with an idea to let him run with an idea on a character that died a bit too quickly in a D&D campaign where the character had a split personality. In FATE we could make different aspects for each personality/character and then let him buy into switching personalities with assessments or compels. I think this is something FATE would do well and encourage him to stay with the same character across the years our games tend to run.

Umbran · Nov 19, 2015

You have to be aware of the tendency to shift to the personality that has the Aspects that would be helpful in the current situation. That would effectively be giving him more aspects than anyone else, and would be abusive.

I, personally, have never seen someone play Multiple Personality Disorder in anything like a realistic way, and I'd normally frown on it. But, I frown on attempts to portray mental health issues in the "wacky, clown-nose crazy" form in my games, too. Split personalities are a disturbing reaction to horrible trauma, not something that is fun, or even usually functional with the rest of society.

Vaslov · Nov 21, 2015

Umbran said:
You have to be aware of the tendency to shift to the personality that has the Aspects that would be helpful in the current situation. That would effectively be giving him more aspects than anyone else, and would be abusive.

The concern raised here my limited experience with FATE says this will not likely be an issue at the table. First, the player will need to spend their high concept on the personality split and use those precious FATE chips to change personalities. From my design point of view the ability to shift a personality to something more helpful, or from a compel to something less helpful, is actually the point of the exercise. Second, more aspects has rarely a concern in play. In the games I have participated in rarely do characters even use all of their aspects. More often than not I have several players starting play with a few "undecided" aspects and have yet to see any real abusive behaviors at the table. I might give them fewer aspects per personality. Still working out the mechanical details. Third, I have the advantage of gaming with people that have been role playing for decades and playing at the same table for several years. If I were designing a game for a convention or to be published where I did not know the players I would err on the side of caution as you have suggested.

Umbran said:
I, personally, have never seen someone play Multiple Personality Disorder in anything like a realistic way, and I'd normally frown on it. But, I frown on attempts to portray mental health issues in the "wacky, clown-nose crazy" form in my games, too. Split personalities are a disturbing reaction to horrible trauma, not something that is fun, or even usually functional with the rest of society.

I can see where you are coming from. I trust in the players at the table I have in mind. For an example of how it can work without getting zany see the Kaja system from the book This Alien Shore. I doubt anyone playing games is intending to poke fun at real world mental pain anymore than a games fantasy violence pokes fun at those who have faced physical violence it in real life. There are times real life asserts itself unexpectedly. Last night some friends shared with they were at a bar working on spell selections for a D&D game when the news on Paris broke. It killed the mood and they had to set it aside for a bit. Same thing could happen with an unknown real world hurt. I play games for the social interaction and a bit of escapism, not to cause anyone harm or discomfort. I can respect it if someone at the table ask not to cross a line.