D&D 5E I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

sleypy · Nov 12, 2015

delericho said:
Um... so, out of four transitions (1st -> 2nd, 2nd -> 3e, 3e -> 4e, 4e -> 5e), only three of them provide story justifications?

I'm not sure if the change in population count and such for 3.0 applied to the Forgotten Realms, but I'll assume it correct. I consider basic d&d, rules adjustments for 3.5 and Essentials as major transitions. So to answer your question, Yes, and...

Pauper · Nov 12, 2015

delericho said:
Um... so, out of four transitions (1st -> 2nd, 2nd -> 3e, 3e -> 4e, 4e -> 5e), only three of them provide story justifications?

It would be more accurate to say that only three of them provide catastrophes to cover the change in mechanics between editions:

From 1st to 2nd edition, the Time of Troubles was used as the bridge between the editions. From 3rd to 4th edition, you got the Spellplague. From 4th to 5th, the Sundering (or perhaps more accurately, the Second Sundering).

The 2nd to 3rd edition transition did involve an advancement of the setting calendar, but there wasn't really all that much in D&D 3.0 when released that was all that different from AD&D, at least as far as my memory goes. The big 2nd to 3rd edition change was to Greyhawk, where (according to online sources, at least) Vecna's escape from Ravenloft was used to justify some significant setting changes. (That makes sense, since Greyhawk was still the default setting in 3rd.)

--
Pauper

delericho · Nov 12, 2015

sleypy said:
I'm not sure if the change in population count and such for 3.0 applied to the Forgotten Realms, but I'll assume it correct. I consider basic d&d, rules adjustments for 3.5 and Essentials as major transitions. So to answer your question, Yes, and...

FR was never published under Basic (or B/X, or OD&D), so there's no transition there. I beg to differ on 3.5e or Essentials counting as major transitions, but YMMV I guess.

delericho · Nov 12, 2015

Pauper said:
It would be more accurate to say that only three of them provide catastrophes to cover the change in mechanics between editions:

From 1st to 2nd edition, the Time of Troubles was used as the bridge between the editions. From 3rd to 4th edition, you got the Spellplague. From 4th to 5th, the Sundering (or perhaps more accurately, the Second Sundering).

Sure, I know that. I was more concerned with the use of 'only' to describe the subset of three out of four edition changes.

The 2nd to 3rd edition transition did involve an advancement of the setting calendar, but there wasn't really all that much in D&D 3.0 when released that was all that different from AD&D, at least as far as my memory goes.

Possibly the biggest change was that some characters (The Simbul?) changed from Wizard to Sorcerer. Though as I understand it, that was more a matter of the mechanics finally catching up to the way those characters had always been envisaged by Ed.

Alzrius · Nov 12, 2015

Parmandur said:
One of the issues with the Kickstarter model is that it is, by nature, not retailer friendly.

I don't believe that to be true. Kickstarter is not an online vendor, the way Amazon is. When you pledge to a Kickstarter, you're not making a pre-order, nor is there any impetus for a Kickstarter for a particular book to include sending you a physical copy as a reward (even if virtually all of them do, at some particular pledge level).

Rather, Kickstarter is a crowd-sourced method of venture capitalism; the money you pledge goes into producing the book, which would presumably not come into existence otherwise. Once it has the money to pay for production, there's absolutely nothing stopping it from being sold via traditional retail outlets (at least, notwithstanding its contents, etc.).

Alzrius · Nov 12, 2015

Pauper said:
The big 2nd to 3rd edition change was to Greyhawk, where (according to online sources, at least) Vecna's escape from Ravenloft was used to justify some significant setting changes. (That makes sense, since Greyhawk was still the default setting in 3rd.)

To be technical, while that particular module (Die Vecna Die!) was a Greyhawk-Ravenloft-Planescape module, it was the in-game justification for all of the campaign worlds transitioning from 2E to 3E. That's because it basically ended by saying "this has changed the nature of the planes, and all the worlds therein, in myriad ways ranging from the obvious to the subtle." Since all of AD&D Second Edition's campaign worlds were set within that single cosmology, this de facto included the Forgotten Realms, even if nothing ever explicitly said so.

There was also another adventure that did this for homebrew campaigns as well, that being The Apocalypse Stone.

Jester David · Nov 12, 2015

Corpsetaker said:
Well the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is here and it's getting pretty mixed reviews from "absolutely love it" to "what is this supposed to be?"

After looking at the book I'm going to have to agree with some people when they say they don't really see where this book belongs. I could see someone who is brand new to the Realms picking it up but I wouldn't say there are many of those since the last Forgotten Realms guide came out during 4th edition.

It seems that once again, Wizards has decided to abandon the current and long time fanbase to this supposed future fanbase that is waiting in droves. It looks to me like they would have been better off posting a free online "Forgotten Realms The Sundering Conversion Guide" and then pointed to the older material from there. This guide really seems like a waste of time and since they are still rather scarce in their releases, a waste of a slot for limited material.

I think Bilbo Baggins said it best: "Like butter scraped over too much bread."

I don't think this supplement has garnered the attention Wizards was hoping for.

It seems like a valid product to me.

They've set three storylines in the Realms, and that's the home of their Organized Play Program. Players need to be able to build characters that fit in the Realms and learn some of the flavour, so a book is needed. DMs have the adventures to at least provide *some* flavour.

They're also likely less interested in making a book that will just sell "now" and thinking about a book that will sell now and in six months and in two years. A guide to the Realms for players is evergreen and always appealing. If they release a giant 320-page Realms Campaign Setting, this book still has a purpose.

People have also been asking for content on the Realms and wanting to know what happened during the Sundering. This is likely a bone for those people until they can get a campaign setting written.

Herobizkit · Nov 12, 2015

JeffB said:
It was a rules update for 2e and meant to be a supplement to the OGB and FR1 series. It was not an intro to the realms product geared towards players. Its a very different product than the SCAG.

I dunno. My group and I used it exclusively and separately from any previous FR info just fine in my heyday. Gave me everything I needed to run a FR-light game.

the Jester · Nov 12, 2015

hawkeyefan said:
Do the Sundering novels not go into that? I haven't read them, but au would have thought so.

Who cares? Who wants to be forced to read half a dozen (possibly crappy) novels to figure out stuff that should be explicitly stated in any kind of campaign guide?

Not that I'm a FR-booster, mind you, but to me, this is such a bizarre choice that I just find it baffling.

pukunui · Nov 12, 2015

JeffB said:
It was a rules update for 2e and meant to be a supplement to the OGB and FR1 series. It was not an intro to the realms product geared towards players. Its a very different product than the SCAG.

I just did a comparison yesterday. This was my assessment:

pukunui said:
Forgotten Realms Adventures
It clocks in just under 160 pages, and it has six chapters, covering such topics as "The Forgotten Realms, Post-Avatar", "Gods and Their Specialty Priests", "Cities of the Heartlands", and "Treasure."

Yes, it has more spells than the SCAG, but quite a few of those were already updated to 5e with the EEPC. FRA also has no new character options (just a few pages detailing how the existing classes have changed from 1e to 2e). It also only provides details for the lands of the Heartlands, rather than all of Faerûn. It also, interestingly enough, has 11 whole pages on gems and jewels.

If this was a 5e book, it would probably be called the Heartlands Adventurer's Guide.

D&D 5E I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

sleypy

Explorer

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.

delericho

Legend

delericho

Legend

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

Jester David

Hero

Herobizkit

Adventurer

the Jester

Legend

pukunui

Legend

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