5E [GUIDE] My Word Is My Sword: The Paladin Guide - Page 40
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  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by smbakeresq View Post
    While that is RAW, I wouldn't allow a staff to be used one handed in game, its CHEESE factor is very high. If you allow that because its official, then you should also take your mount into every dungeon that has a large creature and use lance for d12 damage as has been suggested on the forums already
    The errata has officially added the spear, a one handed weapon, to the Polearm Mastery list. No one is talking about the staff.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Now, I want to take you in a tangential direction just to consider - back to reach specifically without polearm mastery (or not until way later). This isn't "better", this is just a different focus - you pick what you want. Also, it doesn't come online until 7th so depending on the level range you expect that may just be too late.

    [...]
    Ah, so you suggest the best way to be Polearm Mastery without shield for triggering most OA and stay out of melee range from foes, right?

    Well, I guess I'm going to play my character until level 15 or so. So, this would make sense. But I also expect my DM to allow me switching fighting style on level 7, if I find a good RP argumentation (like retraining it, because I learned another technique at my Fraction, which is the Order of the Gauntlet).

    So, if I get you right, you suggest 2H Polearm with Protection Fighting Style being the best option with Aura on level 7. And you suggest 1H Polearm + Shield with Dueling Fighting Style as second best (escpecially on low levels).

    It seems like there are pretty good reasons to go for 1H Polearm and hope for switching fighting styles later on. In addition, I would pick +STR on level 8 and +CHR on level 12.

    By the way: This guides always speaks of GWM being "mandatory" for Polearm Mastery. In my view, this is quite a boost, but it comes at the cost of a second feat, what is not viable for most classes that rely on ability scores as well. So, 2H Polearm with Mastery feat also brings a strong boost - maybe not as good as with GWM, but strong as well.
    Last edited by lkwpeter; Wednesday, 10th April, 2019 at 08:50 AM.

  3. #393
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    I wasn't presenting anything as "the best", I was just presenting an alternate path. One of the nice things about 5e is that there are many paths to victory - you can have characters with different strengths and tricks and they all work.

    The reach plus the ability to reduce a foe's speed to zero while frightened with your Aura of Conquest is one nice combo. It's most likely trigger is the Wrathful Smite spell, which is a bonus action to cast so don't you won't get as much use out of polearm mastery (often no bonus action to make attacks, and foe not moving to trigger OAs), so you could delay that and take ASIs sooner.

    But that only protects you from melee, non-reach foes that you have frightened and are exactly 10' from you. It's a tactical game. You might enjoy that. Also it only starts at 7th and I don't knwo the level range you are expecting to play.

    On the other hand, with the DM warning you this will be tougher, great AC plus your 6th level +CHR to saves Aura makes a very robust character. For that weapon + shield is a great combonation. I would suggest Dueling fighting style - dead opponents is great defense and it pairs well with the bonus action attack from using a spear with PAM.

    And there's no reason you can't also be flexible. Even if you have a spear and shield, carry a normal polearm for the times when you have only one opponent and can pull off the Conquest lock-down, even though it won't benefit from Duelist style. (Or even a whip - it still gets +2 Duelist so it's not as bad as it looks.)

    As for GWM - I also disagree that it's "mandatory" with Polearm Mastery. The on-crit bonus attack is a slight upgrade in damage, but mostly wasted. And the -5/+10 working or not is dependant more on party buffs. (Oath of Vengeance paladins can make it work themselves for one target per short rest.) Frankly, without party support (bless, greater invisibility, etc.) for your build +1 STR (so hit and damage on three attacks) will probably be in the same neighborhood of damage as -5/+10, making the ASI better than the GWM in this particular case. (On the other hand, if you do have consistent party buffing, it's a great feat.)

  4. #394
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    Thanks for your detailed answer again!

    I played a couple of sessions with my Paladin (level 3) so far. I realized that there is really a lack of possibilities using the Bonus Action. I know that this might get better in further levels, but so far I have really few spell slots and almost all class features use an Action (instead of a Bonus Action). So, I end up wasting my Bonus Action almost 90% of the time (when not using it for smites).

    Furthermore, Divine Smite almost always outdoes a Bonus Action smite spells. In addition, we are using the alternate rule that a long rest (resetting spell slots) takes about a week or an adventuring "milestone".

    So, in conclusion: it seems almost a MUST to get a regular use for a Paladin's Bonus Action. Another attack means more hits (to apply Divine Smiites) and even more crits. So, I find Polearm Mastery almost perfect (maybe mandatory) to fill this hole.

  5. #395
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    Correct, you either go Polearm or Shield Mastery. Great Weapon Mastery gets you a bonus action sometimes, when you crit or kill something.

    Bonus action attacks get the benefit of the LVL 11 feature that adds d8 radiant damage to attacks, so with PAM you get that d4 +d8 (radiant) + full ability modifier.

  6. #396
    I am curious as to what the experts think about the Tortle race. Do they make good Paladins? If so why? If not, what classes would they be optimal for? Thanks.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smart View Post
    I am curious as to what the experts think about the Tortle race. Do they make good Paladins? If so why? If not, what classes would they be optimal for? Thanks.
    I have a tortle paladin I'm pretty happy with, +2 strength helps a lot because you can start with 17 strength and 15 charisma. That lets you use 1 ASI to catch up your charisma to the races with a boost at the same time as you boost strength to 18. The hardest part is getting a good constitution score, since they don't have a boost there. I started Fighter with 14 con, dumping dex and int, and am considering taking another fighter level for action surge at some point.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smart View Post
    I am curious as to what the experts think about the Tortle race. Do they make good Paladins? If so why?
    The fluff about them works fine for a paladin, which is backed up by the Alignment section. +2 STR +1 WIS is a pretty good fit though not perfect. Claws and hold breath are more of ribbon abilities - nice in the rare cases they come up. Natural armor is a benefit for first and second level paladins as it gets you to AC 17 sooner, but a detriment to higher level paladin, say 5th or higher, because it's lower than plate and you can't find magic armor. Shell Defense ... might be useful if you're about to drop and instead of attacking you want to try to preserve your auras.

    They make perfectly serviceable paladins, but not perfect ones. Which is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Smart View Post
    If not, what classes would they be optimal for? Thanks.
    STR-based rangers. Or if you use an alternative version with a beast companion that doesn't use your actions then Shell defense lets you turtle up (okay, I admit it, pun intended) when hurt while your companion still goes to town.

    Barbarian - great AC, STR, what's not to like. Sure, CON would be better than WIS, but WIS never sucks.

    Clerics that don't get heavy armor but do extra weapon damage at 8th. Few +2 WIS races, +1 with some extra goodies isn't a bad fit.

    Actually, Druids might be better than clerics - with the metal restriction they normally have to deal with Tortles will get a better AC then most druids, even better then if they had the barkskin spell up. +1 WIS still good. +2 STR is not useful for them with Shillelagh, but can be flavorful in terms of a druid with athletics being unusual. Moon druids could like having a high AC when not in wildshape, other druids could like it all the time.

    Monks, for a better AC until your unarmored AC bypasses it. But mostly so you can name yourself after a Renaissance painter and wear a brightly colored mask. Okay, I'll show myself out. Actually, if you don't need DEX for AC, all Martial Arts does work fine off STR. So it's actually a reasonable if unusual build. Go Kensei (XGtE) and a d10 Versatile weapon and it's like you maxed your Martial Arts die.

    Hmm, the AC might be of interest to wizards and sorcerers even if the ability scores don't line up. Being armed for OAs while not having to carry a weapon so you have a free hand for casting is nice too. I think I'm just stretching now.

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