D&D 5E Let's talk power words!

CapnZapp · Mar 12, 2016

How do you find these spells?

Are they alright? Do you choose to memorize them?

Or are they difficult to use? Underpowered?

I get concerned when a known guide writer Treeantmonk effectively discards the spells:

Power Word Stun: A creature targeted by this spell is automatically stunned until at least the end of its next turn with no saving throw as long as it has no more than 150 hp. The issue here is that you don’t always know how many HP your enemies have. Most primary enemies at this level will have more than 150 hp, so how much damage do you have to do before this sticks?

Power Word Kill: This spell has the exact same problem as Power Word Stun, except that now the HP limit is 100hp. I find that limitation very concerning. If the enemy has fewer than 100hp, maybe your best bet is just to cause 100hp of damage.

Especially that last bit sounds like a fatal write-off: "If the enemy has fewer than 100hp, maybe your best bet is just to cause 100hp of damage."

Ouch.

Do you agree? Disagree?

I've had to think about possible minimal-change fixes. Adding saves goes against the schtick of these spells. Adding explicit language "you feel when foe got less than X hit points remaining" feels abstract and a bit cheesy.

How about adding:

"Even if the spell does not have any effect, it sets up a mystical resonance inside the target's body that lasts until the beginning of your next round. At that time the spell triggers a second time, before dissipating harmlessly."

The practical effect is that if you cast Power Word Kill at a foe with 101 hit points, chances are good you won't be wasting your high level slot, since if any of your allies manage to hurt the enemy so it starts your next turn below the spell's threshold, it still takes effect.

Hopefully this makes the spells a bit more popular without adding too much overhead. What do you think?

Libramarian · Mar 12, 2016

I don't mind telling them when their foe is under the HP limit.

FormerlyHemlock · Mar 12, 2016

CapnZapp said:
The practical effect is that if you cast Power Word Kill at a foe with 101 hit points, chances are good you won't be wasting your high level slot, since if any of your allies manage to hurt the enemy so it starts your next turn below the spell's threshold, it still takes effect.

Hopefully this makes the spells a bit more popular without adding too much overhead. What do you think?

It's an interesting approach, game balance-wise, but I hate the fluff.

To me, power words have always been about the casting time: whereas other 9th level spells are slow-casting, power words cast as quick as a first-level spell. But, 5E's default initiative system discards casting times, making power words kind of nicheless if you're not using Speed Factor Initiative.

My suggested fix would be to fiddle with other aspects of the spell: e.g. make them bonus actions like Misty Step. My other fix would be to provide another spell, a divination spell, which can let you sense how much life force enemies have remaining. It would be useful for other things, but would synergize with power word spells. Put these two together and you have a niche for the spell. E.g. first I suck out 8d6 worth of life via Vampiric Touch VIII, and then I bonus action Power Word: Kill you if you're below the threshold.

iserith · Mar 12, 2016

I would assume anyone using these spells is going to take a fictional action to assess the target's remaining health before casting it. If there is any uncertainty, a Wisdom check can resolve it and I could see the Medicine proficiency applying here.

In some cases, just laying down another 100 hp of damage by other means may be feasible. In other cases, the spell may be a better option such as when the party can't dish out that much damage in time to avoid a potentially deadly attack by the target or the completion of the target's goals (like activating the doomsday device).

The Grassy Gnoll · Mar 12, 2016

how about power word kill does 100hp of damage; if the target has more than that, they take this damage off their total current HP (maybe even their Max HP until a long rest). If 100 or less, die.

To make it more 'caveat emptor', the spell deals 100 HP of damage. If the target has a max HP lower than half that, the excess damage is taken by the wizard.

PW:Stun is a bit more fiddly to manage based on the same application. Perhaps if the target has more than 150 HP they aren't stunned but perhaps suffer Disadvantage for a round?

DeanP · Mar 12, 2016

A little Power Word Play from my campaign last night which incorporates elements of the story "Shadow Eyed of Halagar" with my "Greyhawk: The Dark Ages" chronicle. In our previous session, the player characters terribly botched an assault on the Ancient Red Dragon Ancenagri, they using Word of Recall and Teleportation. The angered dragon proceeded to devastate the northern territory of the Principality of Ulek. It destroyed the village of Thrunch, and devastated the town of Thunderstrike along the Jewel River. This was a several day run of destruction. Once they were ready, the characters, teleported to the demense of their Grey Elven Bard companion, and from there, rode a flying carpet, a figurine of wonderous power (griffon), and the one real griffon to track down the dragon. The epic battle in their air over the ruined city concluded with the Bard casting Power Word Stun at just the right time, it worked, and the Dragon plummeted to the ground to its death.

Probably the most exciting use of Power Word Stun that I've seen to date.

AaronOfBarbaria · Mar 12, 2016

I find the power word spells, including kill, to be fine as-is. Haven't gotten one of my campaigns high enough level to evaluate if my players will be utilizing them, but I do know that I intend to have NPCs utilize them to present a type of threat which "illustrates" the dangers of such high-level magic, and if I were to sit down today and be playing a high level wizard with at least 3 9th level spells in my book, one of them would be power word kill and I'd have it (and the other two) prepared.

As to the usage... I don't think it is particularly difficult to use, as I am a DM that runs full-transparency so that players do not waste resources like spell slots by casting them with no idea of the odds of working, but I do see the spell as being situational - like every other spell.

While I don't exactly agree with Treantmonk's conclusion of "maybe your best bet is just to cause 100hp of damage." I do understand why it has been made; at the level of play when this spell becomes an option, the party has numerous methods of dealing fairly large amounts of damage in a short period of time, so another 100 hp of damage is probably only a round or two of lower-resource-cost attacks.

Except for when it isn't, which is where this situational spell becomes worth casting: if the target has potent defense against the party's forms of attack, whether it is some regenerative ability, legendary resistance or otherwise potent saves, a high enough armor class to reduce the effectiveness of attacks, particular immunities or resistances, really anything that significantly slows down the party's damage-dealing rate, or even a matter of circumstantial time-restriction (i.e. something bad happens if the fight continues 1 or 2 rounds longer), or of the target having potent attacks that the party will be greatly advantaged by preventing - then the ability of this spell to say "You die, right now, no save, no chance to miss, no recourse but coming back from death." is suddenly no longer unimpressive and seemingly not a solid choice for expending your very likely only 9th level spell slot on using.

Is that sort of situation going to happen often? Probably not - but then, I don't think situations in which casting a 9th level spell of any sort makes the most sense come up all that often in the first place, so being particularly situational doesn't register as a "con" for me.

Satyrn · Mar 12, 2016

Libramarian said:
I don't mind telling them when their foe is under the HP limit.

I wouldn't mind either.

Indeed, I track the monsters' HP in full view of the players, counting down, so they would indeed know.

FormerlyHemlock · Mar 12, 2016

AaronOfBarbaria said:
then the ability of this spell to say "You die, right now, no save, no chance to miss, no recourse but coming back from death." is suddenly no longer unimpressive and seemingly not a solid choice for expending your very likely only 9th level spell slot on using.

Except, it's not "no defense, no recourse" at all. Against SOP for adventuring parties, it's going to be blocked by either or both of:

1. Death Ward on everybody
2. Lore Bard with Counterspell

Even if it works, it just costs the Paladin one action and a third level spell slot to Revivify you.

And there's a good chance it won't work on any PCs in the first place due to high HP and the Aid spell, which is also in SOP. IME.

If PWK really were ineluctable and irresistible and permanent, it might be worth using. In fact though it is anything but.

AaronOfBarbaria · Mar 12, 2016

Hemlock said:
Against SOP for adventuring parties, it's going to be blocked by either or both of:

1. Death Ward on everybody
2. Lore Bard with Counterspell

Neither of those things are actually guaranteed "SOP" for any adventuring party. Nor do I have to be literally correct in every single possible circumstance to be correct in the specific circumstance that I outlined.

Hemlock said:
Even if it works, it just costs the Paladin one action and a third level spell slot to Revivify you.

A paladin, a third level spell slot, and the revivify spell are all variables - not constants.

Hemlock said:
And there's a good chance it won't work on any PCs in the first place due to high HP and the Aid spell, which is also in SOP. IME.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned I play with full-transparency so that there is no such thing as an instance of "I cast power word kill", on either DM or Player side of the game, in which the target of the spell doesn't currently have 100 or fewer hit points.

Does that mean the spell can be less useful in someone else's game than it is in mine? Sure - but that's because of their choice in how to run the game, not the text of the spell effect.