WOIN-d20 Conversion Guide (Monsters)

Morrus · Mar 18, 2016

I put this together so that folks can convert 3.x monsters to WOIN. It's just a rough draft, so don't view it as too "official" or anything, but I'd really appreciate it if some folks would give it a try and convert a critter or two.

You need a 3.x stat block, and use that to convert to a WOIN stat block.

Morrus · Mar 18, 2016

Incidentally, I had been wondering how to determine MAGIC, and I'm leaning towards equals it directly with caster level from 3.x. So a critter with a caster level of 10 would have MAG 10 (4d6).

Primitive Screwhead · Mar 22, 2016

I think caster level = magic is a pretty close enough conversion. As you mentioned in an earlier thread, most magic using monsters should be build with exploits as opposed to actual spell casting... mainly for ease of handling them.

I will look over/use the conversion guide some this week and let you know what I think.

Morrus · Mar 23, 2016

Cool. Bear in mind it's just a rough draft informal thing, so I don't expect it to be perfect. But Imdo eventually want solid conversion guides for various major game systems so you can use adventures and bestiaries and the like.

Primitive Screwhead · Mar 23, 2016

I have yet to see a conversion from one system to another that was anywhere near perfect!

Ideally we would have a searchable non-copyright-infringing database of monsters converted to WOIN..in Fantasy Grounds of course!

Primitive Screwhead · Mar 23, 2016

Okay, ran into my first conversion challenge question... related to 4e specifically but also an issue with D20 > WOIN in general.

The problem revolves around the attack bonus. In D20 the characters level is the primary driver behind ability to hit while in WOIN the characters level/grade is a limiter and the stats are the primary driver.

One possibility is to add the calculated grade {1/2 level + 3} to two {2} of the creatures WOIN stats:
- Strong creatures add to STR and END
- Fast creatures add to AGI and INT
- Smart creatures add to LOG and LUC
- Controller type creatures add to WILL and CHA

Adding to this is the 4e Monster paradigm of Minion/Demi-Monster/Monster/Elite/Solo that alters the math to keep a critter viable as an opponent across more levels.
An Elite Ettin would be level/CR 10 but would have defenses equivalent to a level/CR 6 creature while a Demi-Monster Ettin would have a level/CR of 2 but with the defenses of a level/CR 6 creature.

One possibility would be to scale the 4e monster to the base 'Monster' creature and then apply a Health/Soak and Attack/Damage modifiers. Perhaps a close-enough approximation would be to treat the creature as if it was a size larger {or smaller}. So an Elite Ettin would be treated as an Huge creature and gain 1.5 health a Soak of 5 and natural damage of 3D6, and gets three actions... while still being treated as Large for Speed, Defense, and Reach.

Speaking of the size chart and health. I prefer that what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and have Tiny listed with a x0.5 Health mod.

Finally, I prefer that defenses do not have the "No Defense score can ever be lower than 10" and instead have an "Attacks must exceed a value of 10 and exceed the targets defense score"
This is in order to avoid misunderstanding when someone gets a temp bonus of +2 to a defense score and think that means their capped score of 10 goes up to 12 when in fact their actual defense score is still under 10... so they don't benefit from the bonus.

BTW, I am running a 4e module...

Morrus · Mar 23, 2016

Primitive Screwhead said:
Okay, ran into my first conversion challenge question... related to 4e specifically but also an issue with D20 > WOIN in general.

I don't think it will work with 4E that well. I was using 3.x as the base. 4E has a different math structure and will need a different conversion document.

The problem revolves around the attack bonus. In D20 the characters level is the primary driver behind ability to hit while in WOIN the characters level/grade is a limiter and the stats are the primary driver.

That's why they get combat skills equal to their CR and defence skills equal to half their CR.

Speaking of the size chart and health. I prefer that what is good for the goose is good for the gander, and have Tiny listed with a x0.5 Health mod.

Finally, I prefer that defenses do not have the "No Defense score can ever be lower than 10" and instead have an "Attacks must exceed a value of 10 and exceed the targets defense score"

Those are core WOIN rules, not just the conversion document. I don't plan to change the core WOIN rules any further; sorry. The playtesting of those ended many months ago! The penalties for small sizes are deliberately very minor.

Feel free to adopt half HEALTH for Tiny creatures as a house rule if you prefer though.

Primitive Screwhead · Mar 23, 2016

Morrus said:
I don't think it will work with 4E that well. I was using 3.x as the base. 4E has a different math structure and will need a different conversion document.

That's why they get combat skills equal to their CR and defence skills equal to half their CR.

4e stats are pretty equivalent, minus the whole Minion/Monster/Elite/Solo breakout.

Well, for example lets look at the 3.5 Treant and the WOIN Ent with the conversion process.

WOIN Ent

Code:

STR 30 (7d6)  AGI 2 (1d6)  END 30 (7d6)
INT 4 (2d6)  LOG 6 (3d6)  WIL 30 (7d6) CHA 4 (2d6)  LUC 0 (0d6)  REP 0 (0d6)
Health: 144
Soak: 15
MELEE DEFENSE 10; RANGED DEFENSE 10; MENTAL DEFENSE 25
NATURAL DAMAGE 4d6+7 
CARRY 2400lb
Actions: 4

Converted Treant {pure numbers}

Code:

STR 14 (4d6)  AGI 4 (2d6)  END 10 (4d6)
INT 6 (3d6)  LOG 8 (3d6)  WIL 8 (3d6) CHA 6 (3d6)  LUC 0 (0d6)  REP 0 (0d6)
Health: 44
Soak: 5
MELEE DEFENSE 10; RANGED DEFENSE 10; MENTAL DEFENSE 10
NATURAL DAMAGE 3d6+4 
CARRY 480lb 
Actions: 3

I think the draft conversion will work well for 'normal' Medium sized humanoid creatures, but high strength and larger sizes makes the math go wonky.
Adding the Grade to the Treant's STR and END still leaves it significantly weaker to the Ent write-up.

Yes, I know its a draft and not perfect and won't be a bulls-eye each time.. but it should at least hit the target board somewhere!

Morrus · Mar 23, 2016

I came up with a new attribute conversion table today by revere engineering average scores for size category landmarks, with a bit of rounding. Haven't tested it yet.

3.x score => multiplier to get WOIN score

10-20 => 0.5
21-30 => 1
31-40 => 1.5
41-50 => 2
51+ => 3

So that STR 29 Treant would have 29 STR in WOIN.

Comparing it to the WOIN Ent is meaningless - that wasn't converted from 3.x stats but designed from the ground up.

Morrus · Mar 23, 2016

Incidentally, the reason I don't add CR is because the CR is already part of what determines the ability scores (and other things). It's already factored in. It's just a question of getting the diversion right. In this case, it's a flat scale to an expanding scale, which means the multipliers need to increase as the scores go up.