D&D 5E Help with picking Bard spells

Dasem · Mar 21, 2016

Alright, I'm in a party of three, myself included. Level Eight.

Took a good look at Mellored's Bard handbook. Absolutely spectacular, as is all his handbook work.

Here's the party:

Open Hand Monk
A homebrewed Witcher class
Lore Bard (me)

I'm the only spellcaster. The Witcher has a few Cantrip-like abilities, but that's it. So I'm the face, spellcaster, healer, debuffer, controller...

I believe it was Treantmonk who said preventing damage is better than healing after the fact. Something I wholeheartedly agree with for this edition.

I only know so many spells, so they have to be chosen wisely. I think I went a bit too heavy on the Concentration spells.

Faerie Fire, Absorb Elements, Feather Fall, Healing Word

Suggestion, Hold Person, Lesser Restoration

Bestow Curse, Fireball, Hypnotic Pattern, Leomund's Tiny Hut

Polymorph, Dimension Door

Fireball and Absorb Elements are my Lore picks.

I think I can dump Feather Fall and Bestow Curse. Tiny Hut has become our go-to "We need a rest, safe place" spell, plus it's a Ritual so doesn't expend a slot. I don't have anything for single target damage. Hold Person and Scorching Ray seems like a great combo, and picking up Hold Monster at lv9 seems wise.

Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Any synergy between spells I may not be seeing?

LightningArrow · Mar 21, 2016

- Feather Fall has to go; it's too situational for a spell-starved Bard, and the Monk should have Slow Fall (making it less useful). Go for Dissonant Whispers (damage) or Detect Magic (utility).
- I would take Enhance Ability, it's very versatile.
- I'm assuming you're at level 8, so you can grab the Ritual Caster feat for even more utility without expending slots.

Anything else will depend on party roles. I've actually been in a similar party before (Bard, Fighter and me as the Ranger), and in that case the Bard's main thing was the social skills. Maybe some enchantment could help there?

Dasem · Mar 21, 2016

I've expertise in Deception, so even rolling an 8 results in a 19. Levels 4 and 8 were spent on getting Charisma to 20 and the Warcaster feat to maintain Concentration.

I'm trying to work with the DM for an item that's grant me Advantage on Deception checks, but that's going to take a little finesse since I just got a Pearl of Power (essentially an extra level 3 slot). Not expecting another magic item anytime soon.

Agree on swapping out Feather Fall with Detect Magic.
Swap Bestow Curse with Dispel Magic?

I still need good, scalable single target damage. Is there something better than Scorching Ray?

And for my Magical Secrets at 10th level... I'm at a loss. Destructive Wave seems to jump out at me. Friendly, large AoE, good damage type. Bigby's Hand also seems versatile, utilizing bonus actions for seemingly solid effects. Wall of Force is also great.

LightningArrow · Mar 21, 2016

If you're not using a shield, I'd go for Resilient (CON) instead of War Caster; making a CON save can really save you, and it helps with concentration as well.

As a Lore Bard, you're the second best dispeller in the game (for Jack of All Trades), so sure, why not.

Scorching Ray is not on the Bard list, so you'd have to waste a Magical Secret in it. I wouldn't bother too much with single target damage: let your buddies do something. But yeah, as far as damage goes Scorching Ray is it.

As for the other magical secrets, it depends. Dodginess? Mirror Image. Damage control? Death Ward. Control? Watery Sphere. Melee power? Staggering Smite. Ranged power? Swift Quiver. One that's hard to beat is Raise Dead, especially since you have no Cleric/Druid.

Dasem · Mar 21, 2016

My Dex & Str are nothing exciting, so Smite and Swift Quiver won't be much help. Raise Dead... Tempting. Very much so. Makes a lot of sense. But... Call me evil, I'm a firm believer in death should have consequences. I'm actually purposely trying to stay away from resurrection spells. Healing I'm not opposed to. I know it may seem stupid, but I do think PC death should be really difficult to reverse.

mellored · Mar 22, 2016

I would drop hold person. Monks can stun for single target.
I assume the Witcher is also single target so I would focus on AoE and buffs.

Fireball and hypnotic pattern qualify for AoE.

Greater invisibility and haste can be great buff and defense. Bless might be as well, but only if the Witcher attacks.

Keep an eye out for some wall spells at higher level as well.

Dasem · Mar 22, 2016

Dropping Hold Person, huh? That's bold. It's free crits. That's double the damage output for the Monk and Witcher, along with 20d6 damage from myself if I hit with a Scorching Ray at 5th level.

Hmm... I thought it was untouchable. I'm not disregarding your advice, Mello, but it has thrown me through a bit of a loop.

mellored · Mar 22, 2016

Dasem said:
Dropping Hold Person, huh? That's bold. It's free crits. That's double the damage output for the Monk and Witcher

For a level 8 monk....

1d6+4 = 7.5
2d6+4 = 11
= 46% more damage with a crit. Not double. And i'm guessing the witcher is similar, unless it has sneak attack.

Plus it does nothing if you miss.

along with 20d6 damage from myself if I hit with a Scorching Ray at 5th level.

That would end up overkilling most targets.
So it needs to fail 2 saves, and be a humainoid with 70+ HP.

Hmm... I thought it was untouchable. I'm not disregarding your advice, Mello, but it has thrown me through a bit of a loop.

It's certainly a good spell, but the monk can stun a single target better, so it loses much of it's value.

Guest 6801328 · Mar 22, 2016

Slightly off-topic, but what is a "Witcher"? Is that a 4e class? I'm picturing a Ranger Undead Hunter....

mellored · Mar 22, 2016

Elfcrusher said:
Slightly off-topic, but what is a "Witcher"? Is that a 4e class? I'm picturing a Ranger Undead Hunter....

It's not 4e thing, but a different game.

But yea, it's a ranger / monster hunter, with a strong side of alchemist for self-buff potions. Drinking wearwolfs blood and the like.

D&D 5E Help with picking Bard spells

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