5E Mostly Useless Things in 5E?
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  1. #1
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    Mostly Useless Things in 5E?

    As the title says. Various thigns that are mostly uselss in 5E IMHO.

    1. Intelligence saves. There is a few spells (I can only think of feeblemind) and things like Mind FLayers and Intellect devourers. Unless you are a wizard intelligence seems to be the ultimate dump stat. No bonus skills or even languages mkaes it a really crappy stat for most classes.

    2. Medium armor. Attacks are keyed off strength and dex so maxng one or the other is often a good idea. Medium armour is a bit better with 4d6 drop the lowest and a decent roll, along with spellcasters lacking proficiency in heavy armor. MAD s still a thing in 5E. Gets better if you can key your physical attacks off a spell casting stat (Nature clerics, Tomelocks, Dragonkin race).
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  2. #2
    Constant nit-picking of the system design and mechanics by people who prefer other systems.

    Discussion with people who think that if something doesn't fit their preferred play-style then it most be broken or useless.

    Other than that I don't see much that is mostly useless, things that are only situation-ally useful sure, but that really isn't the same thing.

  3. #3
    I've been questioning disengage a lot lately. Casters should use shocking grasp or misty step, and anyone with decent armor should use the dodge action instead of disengage.

    Edit: disengaging with a bonus action, a la rogue, on the other hand is good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    As the title says. Various thigns that are mostly uselss in 5E IMHO.

    1. Intelligence saves. There is a few spells (I can only think of feeblemind) and things like Mind FLayers and Intellect devourers. Unless you are a wizard intelligence seems to be the ultimate dump stat. No bonus skills or even languages mkaes it a really crappy stat for most classes.
    Well, you could also point out that intelligence is pretty good for illusions (although the saves are decidedly mixed when it's not a check for illusions - see Phantasmal Force (INT), compare Phantasmal Killer (WIS)). So while not directly a save, it's germane to a class of spells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhermit View Post
    Constant nit-picking of the system design and mechanics by people who prefer other systems.
    Nothing compared to the edition war.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Vargas View Post
    Nothing compared to the edition war.
    I didn't fight in any edition wars, I was a conscientious (or oblivious) objector.

    I understand my comment probably comes across as facetious, but I actually meant that those discussions are mostly useless. Take the given examples in the OP;

    "Unless you are a wizard intelligence seems to be the ultimate dump stat. No bonus skills or even languages mkaes it a really crappy stat for most classes."

    First we the "most" classes disclaimer, fine, we admit that it is absolutely useful to the wizard. Then there is the point of fact that Int does give bonuses which might vary wildly depending on the game being played. Then, there is the entire premise that if a stat doesn't give substantial "enough" defined mechanical bonuses that makes it "a really crappy stat.." and mostly useless. This is by no means a given, simply because the effects of something are not spelled out in the book does not necessitate it being any less useful to people playing the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happyhermit View Post
    I didn't fight in any edition wars, I was a conscientious (or oblivious) objector. I understand my comment probably comes across as facetious, but I actually meant that those discussions are mostly useless.
    How much more useless is it of you to start a meta-discussion tangent, then? Zardnaar's criticisms in this thread are, in stark contrast to the years of zealous ranting he's put in previously, quite mild, specific, and neither outright fabricated nor entirely invalid. Maybe you should just ignore such things, like you did the much more heinous things that went on throughout the edition war.
    Last edited by Tony Vargas; Thursday, 14th April, 2016 at 09:50 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    As the title says. Various thigns that are mostly uselss in 5E IMHO.

    1. Intelligence saves.
    It's clear that STR/INT/CHA saves aren't as significant as CON/DEX/WIS saves, and 5e's sub-systems, including the parsimonious distribution of proficiency in saves (one significant save to a class, one second-string - no proficiency in the majority), reflects that - that and a clear design intent for characters to fail saves.

    2. Medium armor.
    Same issues it faced in 3e, really. A character with exactly 14 DEX might have reason to choose medium armor, for anyone else using it, it's because the better choice is unavailable to them for some reason. Not about being 'useful' in some absolute sense so much as being about differentiating classes. Some classes get better armor proficiencies or get stat priorities that favor different armor choices. It's a vestige of the armor proscriptions of the classic game.
    Last edited by Tony Vargas; Thursday, 14th April, 2016 at 09:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    As the title says. Various thigns that are mostly uselss in 5E IMHO.

    1. Intelligence saves. There is a few spells (I can only think of feeblemind) and things like Mind FLayers and Intellect devourers. Unless you are a wizard intelligence seems to be the ultimate dump stat. No bonus skills or even languages mkaes it a really crappy stat for most classes.
    anyone wanting to ever do something that falls under investigation and history (two that seem to come up all the time) might disagree with you. Then again, if your games are nothing but combat, I can see why you might thinks this.


    2. Medium armor. Attacks are keyed off strength and dex so maxng one or the other is often a good idea. Medium armour is a bit better with 4d6 drop the lowest and a decent roll, along with spellcasters lacking proficiency in heavy armor. MAD s still a thing in 5E. Gets better if you can key your physical attacks off a spell casting stat (Nature clerics, Tomelocks, Dragonkin race).
    I'm not even following this. It doesn't make sense.

    But here's my question to you. After all this time, making dozens of threads complaining about how things are broken/useless in 5e, why do you keep playing it? Play your preferred edition and be happy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post

    1. Intelligence saves. There is a few spells (I can only think of feeblemind) and things like Mind FLayers and Intellect devourers. Unless you are a wizard intelligence seems to be the ultimate dump stat. No bonus skills or even languages mkaes it a really crappy stat for most classes.
    .
    One more thing- if psionics and the mystic ever becomes a "thing," then intelligence saves will be elevated in importance.

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