5E Fixing the terrible Weapon Master feat - Page 10
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst 1234567891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 101
  1. #91
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Posts
    6,329
    Weapon Master

    Select two weapons, which are your mastered weapons. You gain the following benefits.

    - You are proficient with your mastered weapons.

    - You gain the benefits of a fighting style when wielding a mastered weapon. These fighting styles do not stack with the same fighting style gained from another source.

    --- If the weapon has the two-handed keyword, you gain the Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    ---If the weapon has the light keyword, you gain the Two-Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    --- If the weapon is a ranged weapon, you gain the Archery Fighting Style.

    --- For any other weapon, you gain the Dueling style.

    - Before you make an attack with a mastered weapon, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attacks' damage.
    XP Laurefindel gave XP for this post

  2. #92
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
    Weapon Master

    Select two weapons, which are your mastered weapons. You gain the following benefits.

    - You are proficient with your mastered weapons.

    - You gain the benefits of a fighting style when wielding a mastered weapon. These fighting styles do not stack with the same fighting style gained from another source.

    --- If the weapon has the two-handed keyword, you gain the Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    ---If the weapon has the light keyword, you gain the Two-Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    --- If the weapon is a ranged weapon, you gain the Archery Fighting Style.

    --- For any other weapon, you gain the Dueling style.

    - Before you make an attack with a mastered weapon, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attacks' damage.
    Neat.

    But I'd call it Real Weapon Mastery so it can co-exist with the PH feat. I totally agree that the book feat is poorly named - and I'm not even sure that anyone anywhere has ever taken it - but I'd leave it available on the far off chance that one of players decide it was just the thing for their character, the way I wound up taking Moderately Armored for mine.
    XP TwoSix gave XP for this post

  3. #93
    Member
    Guide (Lvl 11)



    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    443
    How many people actually want 3 or 4 extra weapon proficiencies when looking for weapon proficiencies?

  4. #94
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Eubani View Post
    How many people actually want 3 or 4 extra weapon proficiencies when looking for weapon proficiencies?
    Maybe none. Maybe lots.

    I don't know, and since the feat already exists I see no harm in leaving it available.

  5. #95
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,162
    Quote Originally Posted by WaterRabbit View Post
    In case you were confused, the title of the thread is "Fixing the Terrible Weapon Master Feat". So, the question you pose isn't any different than the reasons someone would take the original feat. Multiclassing isn't allowed; playing to level 20 and don't want to give up a capstone ability through multiclassing just to get a weapon; gain access to weapon proficiencies [Did you want a "not" here"? in the base table.

    So, what I am assuming you meant was that you don't think the proposed change is sufficient to make the feat viable. Fair enough. But maybe offer your own tweak or build on what others have posted.
    Yeah, I don't think it is sufficient enough for most tables.

    From everything I have seen and heard 1) Multi-class is common, 2) Most capstones are not desirable 3) Most tables do not use weapons not on the base tables, and if they do they often either provide proficiency or the DM does not want players proficient in those weapons.

    I did offer the homebrew I use (taken from The Dawnforged Cast) earlier in the thread, it led to a sizable debate so I'm not inclined to try a second verse of the same thing.


    Thinking on it though, I don't think I would attempt to "fix" the feat by changing the single feat. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one balanced ability that would make sense for someone who is a master of all weapons to have. It would fit the design space better to work with making feats that cover all sorts of styles and weapon choices.

    I also think, that the majority of those feats should be highly desirable by Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins and Rangers, the four classes most strongly tied to the martial archetype. The biggest issue I have with your proposed fix of adding a fighting style is that most of these classes already took their fighting style by the time they get this, and the majority of fighting styles are exclusive. It can be really enjoyable to have an ability that gives you a little more flexibility, but for most of these classes it will work out as +1 AC for taking defensive, because that style isn't most people's first choice but it is a major second choice.

    Looking at medium armor mastery, it also gives a +1 AC, but the major draw in my eyes is actually the ability to negate the disadvantage on stealth checks (which sneakily also increases AC, since it means players will move from Breastplate to Half-plate) which is an ability the PC did not have the option of taking before.

    And that is the core of feats to me, the ability to do something you could not do before.




    Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
    Weapon Master

    Select two weapons, which are your mastered weapons. You gain the following benefits.

    - You are proficient with your mastered weapons.

    - You gain the benefits of a fighting style when wielding a mastered weapon. These fighting styles do not stack with the same fighting style gained from another source.

    --- If the weapon has the two-handed keyword, you gain the Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    ---If the weapon has the light keyword, you gain the Two-Weapon Fighting Fighting Style.

    --- If the weapon is a ranged weapon, you gain the Archery Fighting Style.

    --- For any other weapon, you gain the Dueling style.

    - Before you make an attack with a mastered weapon, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attacks' damage.
    I like the idea behind this, but I'm thinking about how it would work in implementation.

    Paladin or Fighter with a greatsword took the Great Weapon Fighting Style at levels 1 or 2, so at level 4 they are looking at a feat that gives them a style they already have, proficiency in the weapons they already have proficiency in, and can take the -5/+10 of Great Weapon Master...

    Or they take Great Weapon Master, get the -5/+10, and the ability to make bonus action attacks under certain criteria.

    Fighter or Ranger with a bow... same story. They likely already took Archery, and this is a worse source of the -5/+10 than the Sharpshooter feat.

  6. #96
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Posts
    6,329
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosmancer View Post
    I like the idea behind this, but I'm thinking about how it would work in implementation.

    Paladin or Fighter with a greatsword took the Great Weapon Fighting Style at levels 1 or 2, so at level 4 they are looking at a feat that gives them a style they already have, proficiency in the weapons they already have proficiency in, and can take the -5/+10 of Great Weapon Master...

    Or they take Great Weapon Master, get the -5/+10, and the ability to make bonus action attack under certain criteria.
    teighter or Ranger with a bow... same story. They likely already took Archery, and this is a worse source of the -5/+10 than the Sharpshooter feat.
    Yep, pretty much how I wanted it to work. It's not better than GWM, or SS, and doesn't really synergize with them. But it lets classes that aren't fighter, paladin, or ranger dip to get fighting styles and the important -5/+10 mechanic. I saw it as being more for monks, or valor bards, or classes that wanted to go dual-wielding or sword and board and still do decent damage.
    XP Satyrn gave XP for this post

  7. #97
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,162
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
    Yep, pretty much how I wanted it to work. It's not better than GWM, or SS, and doesn't really synergize with them. But it lets classes that aren't fighter, paladin, or ranger dip to get fighting styles and the important -5/+10 mechanic. I saw it as being more for monks, or valor bards, or classes that wanted to go dual-wielding or sword and board and still do decent damage.
    Ok, fair enough.

    I just want the weapon master feat to be more viable for the pure martial classes like the fighter.

  8. #98
    Member
    Guide (Lvl 11)



    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    567
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronOfBarbaria View Post
    Seriously - not helping your own point at all by claiming everyone thinks the feat is terrible.

    It doesn't work well or isn't appealing for your table, that's fine.

    It does, however, work just fine and appeal to players at my table.

    As for when a character would take it; My wife likes for her wizards to be proficient with swords (and sometimes other weapons) so that she can 1) fit the image in her mind, and of the mini she chose for her character that happens to hold a staff/scroll/book in one hand and a sword/scythe/something else in the other; 2) utilize some magical hand-me-downs from the warriors in the party while casting her green flame blade cantrip; 3) better her character's overall performance while playing the way she is used to playing - which involves using buff spells to survive melee positioning to benefit her party members and using a weapon so she can save other spell slots for area effects and emergencies.
    That's great that she likes it and it helps her play the character she has in her head.

    But it still doesn't make the Feat any good. The two issues are separate.

    Your wife could play exactly the same concept she clearly enjoys from your example if the Feat was more up to speed with other ones, such as having the +1 damage suggestion.

  9. #99
    Member
    A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)



    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Meridian, ID
    Posts
    2,921
    Friday, 7th October, 2016, 11:40 AM, I said a thing.

    Today (25th April, 2019), 6:16 PM, that thing is quoted but not at all contradicted.

    Is it normal for folks to respond to 2+ year old statements without actually bringing anything new to the discussion? Because "But it still doesn't make the feat any good" is just another subjective table-specific opinion stated as if it were universal truth.

    I will now return to my slumber... maybe post again in another couple years.
    Laugh bedir than laughed with this post

  10. #100
    Member
    Spellbinder (Lvl 16)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,162
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronOfBarbaria View Post
    Friday, 7th October, 2016, 11:40 AM, I said a thing.

    Today (25th April, 2019), 6:16 PM, that thing is quoted but not at all contradicted.

    Is it normal for folks to respond to 2+ year old statements without actually bringing anything new to the discussion? Because "But it still doesn't make the feat any good" is just another subjective table-specific opinion stated as if it were universal truth.

    I will now return to my slumber... maybe post again in another couple years.
    The dangers of necromancy made clear to all.

    I forgot this was a necro thread there for a minute.

Similar Threads

  1. Fixing the terrible Grapple feat
    By CTurbo in forum *Dungeons & Dragons
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Friday, 14th October, 2016, 08:11 PM
  2. Great Weapon Master Feat Question
    By Valador in forum *Dungeons & Dragons
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Tuesday, 3rd March, 2015, 08:01 PM
  3. Oriental Adventures Weapon Master and Sword and Fist Weapon Master the same?
    By Kaelynna in forum *General Roleplaying Games Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Wednesday, 9th October, 2002, 12:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •