Half-elves in 3.5 (or: Half-elves got the shaft!)

Olgar Shiverstone · May 13, 2003

1. Since there's a lot of speculation about additional dwarven racial abilities in 3.5 right now, where does that leave half-elves?

Has-beens, if you ask me. They were overpowered in 1E/2E, relegated to marginal in 3E, and now it looks like they'll fade into the generally useless category.

2. What would you do to half-elves to put them more on par with the other races?

I'd give them 1 additional skill point per level (at +4 at start, just like humans) -- to put them about half-elf, half-human. Giving the feat instead of the skill points would be way too good.

Edit: Broken/shafted/whatever ... pick your favorite jargon.

Nightstorm · May 13, 2003

Simple leave them as they are, only give them a +2 to Charisma.

MeepoTheMighty · May 13, 2003

They're not broken, they got the shaft. Dwarves are broken.

JoeBlank · May 13, 2003

Re: Half-elves in 3.5 (or: Half-elves are broken!)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
I'd give them 1 additional skill point per level (at +4 at start, just like humans) -- to put them about half-elf, half-human. Giving the feat instead of the skill points would be way too good.

I've heard the suggestion of a choice between the feat or the additional skill point/level. This does not seem overpowered to me. I am a skill-point junkie, and would have a hard time choosing.

Especially in lower-powered games (such as 25-point-buy), getting extra skill points without having to invest in a high intelligence is a nice option for many character types.

Isn't the mantra "Options, not restrictions"?

SpikeyFreak · May 13, 2003

MeepoTheMighty said:
They're not broken, they got the shaft. Dwarves are broken.

Indeed. Broken means they are too powerful.

--Jargon Nazi Spikey

Gort · May 13, 2003

I thought it could mean either way.

"Broken" merely means that the thing doesn't work. So a ridiculously unpowerful race is as broken as a ridiculously powerful one, surely?

Anyway, weren't half-elves always rubbish? They get favoured class, (which I've never seen anyone take a race to get) and the elf esoteric bonuses. (which I've never seen anyone be an elf to get)

Maybe if they had something that said, "we're interesting", they'd be better. But in my mind, there's not really enough difference between elves and humans in 3rd ed to justify a whole race called "half-elves".

To be honest, I prefer the idea that a human-elf coupling would just result in a 50% chance of the offspring being human, and a 50% chance of them being elf.

But then, I pretty much hate all the "half" races. Half-dragons, half-ogres, half-orcs, half-oozes... I know that they don't necessarily come from sexual pairings but can be magical beings instead, but they just seem stupid to me, really.

One or the other, please.

Here's my suggestion for half-elves.

Same as now, but give 'em favoured class bard, and give them the human 1st level feat. How about that?

Ferret · May 13, 2003

I'd give some kind of iron will feat.

LuYangShih · May 13, 2003

Comparing Half-Elves to Dwarves does illustrate the point well. Dwarves are obviously the most mechanically powerful core race out there, and with 3.5E they seem to be getting better than ever. Half-Elves, meanwhile, are only better than the pitiful Half-Orc, who has even fewer racial abilities and even suffers a -2 to statistical bonuses.

Personally, I'm beginning to consider simply removing the "Half" races from my game. They are weak, mechanically speaking, have little flavor not already offered by their parent races, and are rarely used for any reason. 3.5E had a chance to make them something more than what they are, but if anything it is relegating them even further to the background. As such, I see no point in keeping them around.

takyris · May 13, 2003

So... nobody ever makes a Will save by 2 or less, nobody multiclasses a lot but wants bonuses on several types of skill checks instead of one extra skill point, and so forth? Dude. I don't get the half-elf hatred. I really severely don't.

If you want to go with the Cha route, don't give them a Cha bonus -- I thought it was a conscious decision that no race in the core game got Int, Wis, or Cha bonuses, because those make spellcasters too powerful. Instead, give the half-elf a bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Information checks.

As for dwarves, I agree that they get a lot of nice stuff, but their Cha penalty dings them in more classes than it used to (hurts paladin, sorcerer, bard, and cleric, for the most part, making those tough classes to play -- albeit least for the cleric). That limits the flexibility of the dwarves, and I value flexibility. I also mislike the 20 foot movement rate. I think that those two penalties make them more reasonable. A +2 Con is certainly excellent, but a -2 Cha makes them much less FUN, in my mind -- so it evens out. In a strict dungeon hack, where mobility and social interaction are secondary at best, I can see dwarves as cool.