D&D 5E Battle Master Homebrew Idea

DaedalusX51 · Jan 12, 2017

So to start this out I want to get everyone on the same page as me so that we can have a fruitful discussion.

While commenting in the "Would this fix Champion?" thread. I came to a productive discussion with [MENTION=996]Tony Vargas[/MENTION] about how to solve my issues with the Battle Master.

While I know many players have no issue with the Battle Master as it currently stands, I personally do not like the way that the Battle Master Superiority Dice and Maneuvers function.

I am interested in a Fighter subclass that makes round by round choices, but I kind of get dumped out of the narrative when I run out of Superiority Dice and forget how to perform all of my cool maneuvers.

In order to right this perceived wrong of mine, I have attempted to implement a variation on the Battle Master which can use a lower powered version of a maneuver at will and choose to expend a Superiority Die for an expanded effect.

Please let me know what you think and if there is a way I can possibly balance this a little better. (I know I went overboard on some things, but in my mind, it is always better to be more powerful and tone it down, then to be useless and try to buff it.

I really appreciate all of your input.

http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HJz1FBVUl

Satyrn · Jan 12, 2017

Riposte. When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and expend one superiority die to make a melee weapon attack against the creature.
You can use an extra maneuver on this attack, but you can't use the same maneuver twice.

.
How does the bolded bit work? You've made essentially all the maneuvers require a bonus action, but we don't have bonus actions when taking a reaction.

And it feels weird that sweeping attack uses a reaction, as a reaction ought to be something done when it's not your turn.

Ashkelon · Jan 12, 2017

I like the basic setup of kits having an at-will capability, a bonus Action ability, and a reaction ability but I feel that some additional balance and polish is needed. Also, have you looked at the 4e knight or skater for inspiration at all. They utilized at will stances that affected how they fought in combat and gave them round by round decisions to make. Perhaps turning kits into stances would work better overall.

Here are some ideas:

Dancing blade stance
While in this stance you gain the following abilities:
- Opportunity attacks against you are made with disadvantage.
- As a bonus action, you can move a distance up to half your speed.
- When an enemy misses you with an attack, you can move up to 10 feet. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

Mountain hammer stance
While in this stance you gain the following benefits:
- When you hit a creature with a melee attack, you may push that creature 5 feet.
- If you hit a creature with a melee attack on your turn, you may attempt to shove that creature as a bonus action.
- When a creature attempts to grapple you, you may use your reaction to make a melee attack against that creature.

You can only have one active stance at a time and switching stances would require your bonus action.
Something like that.

The Crimson Binome · Jan 12, 2017

Way overpowered. Most of these maneuvers come at no action cost, and yet they give you the benefit of spending an entire action, but you can use them at-will, with an even better effect up to six times per combat.

Look at the first one: Commander's Strike. You trade off one of your attacks, to give the rogue the benefit of their entire full-attack action (because that's how rogues scale). You can do this indefinitely, except several times per short rest you don't even have to make the trade off.

Or look at the last one: Tripping Attack. You spend nothing, and someone gets knocked down for free. It's like the monk ability, except you don't have to spend any resources for it (compared to monks, who only get this ability when they flurry). But if you did want to spend a tiny fraction of your resources, you get to knock everyone down, again without even spending your action.

I'm not sure why you thought these would fly, or what you're using as your reference point, but please try again.

DaedalusX51 · Jan 12, 2017

Yes those are both good points. I only intended Riposte to be used with Power Attack and Precision attack anyway, so that's a wash there. As for Sweeping Attack, reactions are just actions that are triggered, they can happen at any time, even on your turn. SRD Link

Satyrn · Jan 12, 2017

DaedalusX51 said:
Yes those are both good points. I only intended Riposte to be used with Power Attack and Precision attack anyway, so that's a wash there. As for Sweeping Attack, reactions are just actions that are triggered, they can happen at any time, even on your turn.

Well I learned something about the intent of reactions, neat.

As for the other bit, I think it would be nice as a reader - putting myself in the place someone intending to pick maneuvers - if the wording called out Precision Attack and Power Attack as the maneuvers that can be tacked on so that I don't have to figure it out for myself (because I didn't)

DaedalusX51 · Jan 12, 2017

Saelorn said:
Way overpowered. Most of these maneuvers come at no action cost, and yet they give you the benefit of spending an entire action, but you can use them at-will, with an even better effect up to six times per combat.

Look at the first one: Commander's Strike. You trade off one of your attacks, to give the rogue the benefit of their entire full-attack action (because that's how rogues scale). You can do this indefinitely, except several times per short rest you don't even have to make the trade off.

While I can see why you would consider this overpowered, if the attack is given to any other class it is not. So yes, optimally it can be way more damaging, but it also let's the rogue player feel super awesome for being special. Honestly I think this only adds good things at my table.

Saelorn said:
Or look at the last one: Tripping Attack. You spend nothing, and someone gets knocked down for free. It's like the monk ability, except you don't have to spend any resources for it (compared to monks, who only get this ability when they flurry). But if you did want to spend a tiny fraction of your resources, you get to knock everyone down, again without even spending your action.

I'm not sure why you thought these would fly, or what you're using as your reference point, but please try again.

Yeah, I could probably change that to "an additional creature in reach instead." Not quite as bad.

DaedalusX51 · Jan 12, 2017

Satyrn said:
Well I learned something about the intent of reactions, neat.

As for the other bit, I think it would be nice as a reader - putting myself in the place someone intending to pick maneuvers - if the wording called out Precision Attack and Power Attack as the maneuvers that can be tacked on so that I don't have to figure it out for myself (because I didn't)

That's a really good point. I should really make that clearer. Probably just move them both into the Combat Superiority class feature so that they can have special rules.

Satyrn · Jan 12, 2017

Saelorn said:
Way overpowered. Most of these maneuvers come at no action cost, and yet they give you the benefit of spending an entire action, but you can use them at-will, with an even better effect up to six times per combat.

Look at the first one: Commander's Strike. You trade off one of your attacks, to give the rogue the benefit of their entire full-attack action (because that's how rogues scale). You can do this indefinitely, except several times per short rest you don't even have to make the trade off.

This is a point, but weirdly, I think the fix is to go all-in on the ability. No one will agree with me, I daresay, but here's what my Commander's Strike would look like:

On your turn, you can use your bonus action to direct one of your companions to strike.on your turn, you can forgo one of your attacks and use a bonus action to. When you do so, choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. That creature can immediately use its reaction to use the attack action or to cast a cantrip.

If you expend a superiority die, you. . . this I don't know.

I mean, I don't care how powerful or versatile it is. It's letting your fellow players get all the glory, and works whether you're in a group of archers or wizards, too.

DaedalusX51 · Jan 12, 2017

Satyrn said:
This is a point, but weirdly, I think the fix is to go all-in on the ability. No one will agree with me, I daresay, but here's what my Commander's Strike would look like:

I mean, I don't care how powerful or versatile it is. It's letting your fellow players get all the glory, and works whether you're in a group of archers or wizards, too.

I'm actually in agreement with you on this one. I'll have to update it sometime tomorrow.

D&D 5E Battle Master Homebrew Idea

DaedalusX51

Explorer

Satyrn

First Post

Ashkelon

First Post

The Crimson Binome

Hero

DaedalusX51

Explorer

Satyrn

First Post

DaedalusX51

Explorer

DaedalusX51

Explorer

Satyrn

First Post

DaedalusX51

Explorer

Similar Threads