D&D 5E I hate rapiers. Do you?

LapBandit · Mar 8, 2017

Just get rid of it, it causes no issue and leaves D8 the sole province of the strong.

Cap'n Kobold · Mar 8, 2017

doctorbadwolf said:
I rather like that Dex builds are at least as good as strength builds.

And IRL, the rapier is a very good weapon.

I think that amongst many, Dex builds are regarded as better then Strength builds unless you want to use a two-handed weapon.

Ironically, the rapier actually needs a stronger person to utilise effectively than a Longsword.

Balance wise, I get why it isn't light, but it annoys me nontheless, because the natural accompaniment to a rapier should be a dagger, but you can't dual wield with a rapier without the feat. but again, balance. I get it. And older rapiers were long enough that I can see it (although even then they were often used with a main gouche in the off hand).

Rapiers were paired with the main-gauche, but it was rare that they would be used in simultaneous attacks as per D&D's dual-wielding mechanic. The main-gauche was for defence and for when your opponent was too close for you to employ your rapier effectively. Generally you would be trying to keep at rapier-fighting distance, not dagger-range.

Anyway, if you're cool with full plate in your fantasy, in terms of timeline of equipment in IRL medieval Europe, you should be fine with rapiers. Same amount of anachronism.

I think part of the issue is not the anachronism of them both being around at the same time, its the practicality of trying to use a rapier of said full plate.

Of course all this is rather muddied by the issue that there wasn't really a point at which rapiers just appeared. The longsword was always both a cutting and thrusting weapon, and there was a gradual evolution to accentuate the thrust, with cut-and-thrust swords for civilian use growing longer and thinner to improve their effectiveness against an unarmoured opponent using a similar weapon. The point at which these swords became the D&D rapier isn't definite.

doctorbadwolf said:
The rapier in DnD represents precisely the one handed swords used during the height of heavy armor.

Sort of. The rapier was a civilian weapon. For military use people would still be using what D&D would term a longsword as the backup to their polearm. Rapiers didn't see military use until quite a bit later, after armour was almost fully phased out.

Barolo · Mar 8, 2017

Cap'n Kobold said:
(...)

Ironically, the rapier actually needs a stronger person to utilise effectively than a Longsword.

(...)

You mean in real life? With my vast armchair experience with fencing I would never suspect that. Interesting!

TwoSix · Mar 8, 2017

lowkey13 said:
What would happen if we just ... got rid of the rapier?

Max finesse (dex) is d6, max strength (one handed) is d8.

I'm wondering, because dex already provides certain collateral benefits (AC, Initiative, skills, etc) that strength does not.

You make Dumas cry.

Personally, I don't think it would be a problem; slightly nerfing melee Dex by one average damage isn't going to invalidate any builds.

DEFCON 1 · Mar 8, 2017

lowkey13 said:
What would happen if we just ... got rid of the rapier?

Max finesse (dex) is d6, max strength (one handed) is d8.

I'm wondering, because dex already provides certain collateral benefits (AC, Initiative, skills, etc) that strength does not.

You certainly could do that. I myself wouldn't bother with the change in damage die because I haven't found having a d8 weapon for DEX characters to be an issue in my games. Almost all of my DEX-focused PCs have either gone ranged or dual-wield (which precludes using it anyway until the feat is taken) so having a d8 finesse option I'm okay with. Mainly for DEX-based Edritch Knights and the like, who can't dual-wield if they want to cast spells (without constantly having to sheathe their off-hand weapon.)

For me... it's mainly magic weapon stocking where not needing to split between longswords and rapiers would make me happy.

akr71 · Mar 8, 2017

Make a lot of the opponents your characters face resistant to piercing damage...

Dausuul · Mar 8, 2017

vincegetorix said:
Yeah, the idea of having a dueling weapon against heavy armored foes, mindless beast, creature as large as a barn is laughable...

While the idea of using a longsword against a creature as large as a barn makes perfect sense?

Gardens & Goblins · Mar 8, 2017

Dausuul said:
While the idea of using a longsword against a creature as large as a barn makes perfect sense?

It's ok. It's not a real barn.

Yunru · Mar 8, 2017

Well on a serious note, I removed it for one game, but for the next I'm just adding the Katana (aka Slashing Rapier), and Bo Staff (aka Bludgeoning Rapier).

Leatherhead · Mar 8, 2017

Nowhere near as much as I hate Tridents, and Nets, and Slings, and Blowguns.

In fact, there are so many "wtf were they thinking" spots on the weapon list that I have to question the entire thing.