D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

The Crimson Binome · Apr 13, 2017

Arnwolf666 said:
If Art makes you think like that it should be stripped from the game. Well I never like art in RPG anyway it prevents to many idiots from creating pictures in their own head.

What the rules say are not nearly as important as why they say it. The bard is the way it is because it is supposed to convey the same concept that the art is trying to get across. Without art, we would have nothing to go by aside from the words alone...

... in which case it would still matter that the class is called Bard rather than Skald.

mrpopstar · Apr 13, 2017

Brandegoris said:
I hate Bards. The only bards I like are the ones that play music in taverns
Every time I think of a dude dancing and spouting poetry to " inspire " me while I am being attacked by trolls I just cringe.
If that happened in real life I would stop attacking the trolls immediately and bet the crap outta the singing useless weirdo..
The whole concept is just too silly to even visualize.
Even one that is fighting is silly. Some fighting, singing weirdo. I think players should have to write down what the dude is singing so we can all have an example of how it is " Inspiring". LOLOL

One may choose to dance and spout poetry while casting in combat, but there is no such assumption made in the description of the class. -- The ability to use an instrument while casting is designed to allow bards to weave magic into their performances when subtlety is needed, not while fighting for their lives.

The bard, by virtue of his presence, knowledge, and charisma, is a galvanizing force on the battlefield. His contributions are reinforcing, soothing, stirring, charming, beguiling, and all manner of magical. -- Quite different from a lute-toting wizard.

Silliness is most certainly a player choice.

bedir than · Apr 13, 2017

Brandegoris said:
I get that But having a band a safe distance away and NOT actually fighting is Much different than a guy in combat strumming a harp and chanting. LOL
And also in the Army Bands don't travel into combat. They play at events. As the Bard should do. the bard should stick to events and taverns

You're confusing the modern military band with the what happened in history/fiction of the late middle ages. The piper/bugler/drummer were in the fray

Warpiglet · Apr 13, 2017

Saelorn said:
For me, the problem came when they decided that bardic magic was its own separate thing from wizard magic. In 2E, bardic magic was just wizard magic that the bard happened to pick up in their travels, which meant that all of the magic in the world came from either the gods or from studying the natural magical forces of the world.

By the time 3E came around, bardic magic was its own thing, and it represented yet another source of supernatural powers. I'd be fine if a setting had musical magic instead of arcane or divine magic, but as you add more and more distinct elements to the setting, it just gets bogged down. A world with one unified source of magic, like in Harry Potter, is just way easier to deal with than a world with twelve different sources of magic.

I'm also not a fan of wizards casting spells all day, either, though. If a wizard only had a handful of spells in a day, and had to rely on hitting things with a staff at some point, then that would be great. And the combination of adding in several different sources of magic, while also letting everyone cast spells all day long without ever running dry, means that magic just completely overwhelms the rest of the setting. There's just too much magic for me to really care anymore.

Wow. You got it right. I very much love 5e. That is not in question. However, scarcity can make for some excitement. When everyone has a full complement of spells their use and unavailability change things.

I recall playing AD&D (1st) with a wizard in the party. He was out of spells and was cornered by a wounded Minotaur. He did what he had to do: he unsheathed a +2+3 vs. LMG dagger and rolled well! He stuck that beast for the last of his hit points. Exciting given his THACO was low (he was a Magic-User!) and how critical it was for him to do so. Now? Blast him with another 3d10 firebolt. Less drama!

But then, everyone was nerfed compared to 5e....

But with bards, it is about imagery for me. If the bard can be a primary caster, I am less interested in everything else. When they can literally lift spells from other lists, their subtlety and different-ness is gone for me.

It is just preference but tons of flashy spells does not create the imagery of bard (for me). Some people like them and I am great with that.

For me they are like monks or druids. I am glad there are some people that like them. Just not generally me.

TheCosmicKid · Apr 13, 2017

Saelorn said:
... in which case it would still matter that the class is called Bard rather than Skald.

How does that matter? It's as if you were complaining that a class was called "pirate" rather than "corsair". A skald was basically a Teutonic bard; a bard was basically a Celtic skald. Very similar social functions. Both could play stringed instruments, but neither would have played lutes (anachronistic). Both were defined by their training in poetic composition, and neither would be likely to use their instruments as anything more than an optional accompaniment to their recitations.

Gardens & Goblins · Apr 13, 2017

I'm still not sure how we got from, 'Jack of All Trades' dabbler in magic to 9th level spell access - and a pick-of-the-best from other class spell lists to boot!

MechaTarrasque · Apr 13, 2017

Tony Vargas said:
I don't recall anything in the 5e bard about dancing. You can sub in the verbal components part 'casting' (chanting, perhaps, is that less incongruous?) for 'singing' anywhere else.

I am still holding out hope for the college of dance bard.

Illithidbix · Apr 13, 2017

I did back when they were hose and lute style troubadours in 2E AD&D.

Since I've been introduced to the idea of viking style battle skalds (and the collage of valor) and the sheer importance of stories and verbal record keeping in older societies, I've come to embrace them more.
And the idea of them being more leaders rather than cheerleaders.

And I've seen some awesome Bard characters in play.

Gwarok · Apr 13, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
Um...music as magic is a big part of fantasy literature. It's what created Arda in the Silmarillian. Pied Piper of Hamlin, etc. I don't know why you would think it silly. Even in our mundane world music is magical and inspiring.

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

I don't think the author found the overall concept of music as powerful an issue so much as the absurdity of someone doing so in the middle of combat. The Barbarian swings his trusty Great Axe, the cleric banishes the evil spirits with his glowing holy symbol, the paladin smites the demon with his holy sword, and the bard cast lightning bolt presumably by hitting a power chord on a mandolin. One of these things is not like the others.

The closest thing to making tactical sense even remotely in this arena are the Slaanesh Noise Marines from Warhammer 40k, but even that is clearly a sop to metal fans that make up a considerable part of the 40k fan base

Tony Vargas · Apr 13, 2017

MechaTarrasque said:
I am still holding out hope for the College of Dance Bard.

Sure, and Wizards could get an Astrology Tradition, so when you MC'd them together....

D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

The Crimson Binome

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mrpopstar

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bedir than

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Warpiglet

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TheCosmicKid

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Gardens & Goblins

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Gwarok

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Tony Vargas

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