D&D 5E Resting and the frikkin' Elephant in the Room

Uller · May 23, 2017

robus said:
Publishing an adventure without reference to key mechanics (and, sorry [MENTION=6780961]Yunru[/MENTION], gravity is not a mechanic) that must have been considered during the design of the adventure is puzzling IMHO - why should the DM have to reverse engineer it at the table?

Lost mines had a room in wave echo cave that is called out to the DM as a safe place to rest. I remember a couple places in the various temples in PotA that were called out. Some adventures do it. Some don't. Imxp, it is on the players to decide when their PCs can rest and the DM adjudicates the consequences of that choice. It is helpful for an adventure to point out places that the designers intended to be rest places. But the DM has a role here.

I don't think it is intended for long rests to occur in Ravenloft. I am allowing my group to do it (I just roll random encounters normally) until they encounter Strahd. Then he becomes "active" and will hunt them. But they don't know that. As far as they know he is actively hunting them now.

Do yes...I think some guidance is warranted here in published adventures just like with the many "what do we do with all this loot?!?!" threads. But in the end it's the reason we have a DM...to figure out what the consequences of unscripted actions in the game are.

robus · May 23, 2017

Corwin said:
Is that so? They completely avoid it? Are you sure about that? I'm asking honestly because I haven't read them all so I wouldn't know. I just find it to be an odd claim. Like, do you think they are actively avoiding it? Do you think its intentional? If all of them are failing to mention it, you must believe its intentional, right? Otherwise, at least one of them would have accidentally, at least, made mention.

It's puzzlingly absent. Apparently PotA has reference to it - but that's the one Adventure I don't own as I was a player in that one.

Really? When I read opinions like that, I can't help but get the impression the next logical step is asking for the adventure to run itself. Or, at least define predetermined results at every turn so as to maintain expectations pre-written along the way. Otherwise, I can't fathom how a book could know how a particular adventure, being run form it, is going. It can't tell you. Because the things you are asking for will change every time it's ran. What you are asking for, seems to me, to result in a very railroad-y experience. No thanks.

All adventures are designed for an average adventuring party. If they don't use something as a baseline then they're winging it which seems a bit unprofessional

I think the published adventure also fail to explain what happens when PCs, and/or NPCs, drop to 0 hit points. Another important mechanic that comes up during the playing of it.

Encounters and adventuring days are not designed around dying (well apart from making sure the encounter won't TPK a typical party with the anticipated XP

), but they are (or should be) designed around the resting mechanic.

robus · May 23, 2017

Uller said:
Lost mines had a room in wave echo cave that is called out to the DM as a safe place to rest. I remember a couple places in the various temples in PotA that were called out. Some adventures do it. Some don't. Imxp, it is on the players to decide when their PCs can rest and the DM adjudicates the consequences of that choice. It is helpful for an adventure to point out places that the designers intended to be rest places. But the DM has a role here.

Absolutely - and I do remember that room in Lost Mines - but it's a bit off to leave mentioning rest until the final dungeon

and it was only implied. There's very little hand-holding for new DMs in LMoP IMHO.

Xeviat · May 23, 2017

I handle it by adhering closely to the encounter/day builder XP budget. I put break points for rests near the 1/3rd daily XP mark. Sometimes I have that 1/3rd be one big scary encounter. Sometimes I have it be four easier encounters or some mix. I flat out tell the players that they can't rest if I don't want them to rest there, rather than just hitting them with wandering monsters.

Ultimately, I am working towards switching things to a mostly short rest game and then balancing my encounters to assume a rest after most encounters (unless they're gauntlet staggered encounters, but that's basically one encounter). Then I won't have to deal with all that.

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jgsugden · May 23, 2017

It really isn't as complex as people make it out to be.

If you expect one combat per LR, feel free to make it a tough one.

If you put some time pressure that stops the PCs from resting a lot, keep the challenges lighter so that there can be a lengthy attrition of their resources.

Balance it based upon your expectations of how the PCs will approach the problem.

If you take that general approach and don't overthink it, it works just fine. If you overthink things and worry about every possible thing that could happen, you'll detract from the game.

Corwin · May 23, 2017

robus said:
It's puzzlingly absent. Apparently PotA has reference to it - but that's the one Adventure I don't own as I was a player in that one.

[MENTION=413]Uller[/MENTION] pointed out two. And that was just off the top of their head. I'm betting your original assessment is even more flawed. Given its already proven incorrect, I'm betting more so than you even believe currently. But that's just my gut talking. I have no more evidence than you do, being AFB as I am.

robus said:
All adventures are designed for an average adventuring party. If they don't use something as a baseline then they're winging it which seems a bit unprofessional

How does "average adventuring party", or "baseline", inform the DM that the group left several monsters alive to flee and inform other groups about the party's presence? That's just one example of countless issues that come up in the playing, that the writing cannot account for.

robus said:
Encounters and adventuring days are not designed around dying (well apart from making sure the encounter won't TPK a typical party with the anticipated XP ), but they are (or should be) designed around the resting mechanic.

And both are found in the rulebooks. To be applied by the group at the table as they find appropriate and/or see fit. Are you aware 5e uses a very DM empowered paradigm? Having an adventure spell out exactly when and where a party can or should rest defeats everything "rulings over rules" was designed to accomplish, IYAM.

Irda Ranger · May 23, 2017

CapnZapp said:
So, let us discuss.

How do you make attrition work in a game where you don't fancy doing all the hard work, and instead rely on official published supplements?

Active enemies. The monsters have goals and intentions and press the initiative. If the PCs back off, bad stuff happens.

Running Curse of Strahd, Strahd didn't just mope around in his castle and do nothing. The PCs did things to undermine his rule, and he struck back. If he couldn't attack the PCs directly (they had the sunsword and super-holy symbol), he could undermine their support in Vallaki and kill NPCs they liked.

This is "in the rules" in the sense that all the bad guys have an Intelligence score and role-playing goals.

Corwin · May 23, 2017

robus said:
There's very little hand-holding for new DMs in LMoP IMHO.

How did any of us OG D&D players manage to pull TTRPing off back in the day? This hobby really should have died off in its infancy what with the things people expect of it these days.

robus · May 23, 2017

Corwin said:
[MENTION=413]Uller[/MENTION] pointed out two. And that was just off the top of their head. I'm betting your original assessment is even more flawed. Given its already proven incorrect, I'm betting more so than you even believe currently. But that's just my gut talking. I have no more evidence than you do, being AFB as I am.

i've been running LMoP, ToD and SKT and not once has the rest mechanic been mentioned. The room in LMoP is described as being securable (with the implication that it can be used to long rest).

I've read the other books (with exception of PotA) and I've not once (in my memory) seen resting called out in any special way (or really in any way).

But it seems we are at loggerheads so we should probably leave it there

Uller · May 23, 2017

Corwin said:
How did any of us OG D&D players manage to pull TTRPing off back in the day? This hobby really should have died off in its infancy what with the things people expect of it these days.

All three adventures in the G-series addressed resting in the introduction (the party finds a neaby hidden cave they can retreat to). ToH might make mention of it too...I believe the party is free to leave and rest but demons reset everything in 24 hours...at least I recall reading that somewhere.

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