D&D 5E Hit points explained

innerdude

Legend
To understand hit points, you have to understand what they're actually modeling: the status of a given entity to operate at a minimum level of nominal effectiveness.

When you see it from a war game standpoint, it makes total sense. "Hit points" at a squadron level is equal to the squadron's ability to continue operating nominally as a unit. Once "hit points" for the squadron reaches zero, the squadron as a unit is no longer operating at a level that makes it nominally effective. The affected unit is no longer is a viable threat to an opponent, no longer requires tactical or strategic awareness on the part of the opponent, and is thus removed from the game.

If you cared about the in-game fiction (in war games you usually don't), removing a squadron wouldn't necessarily mean that every member of the squadron died. It would just mean that even if there are survivors, they no longer have the physical means, equipment, and/or inclination to continue the fight. That piece, or unit, is removed and no longer accounted for.

The problem with applying hit points to an individual PC in an RPG is obvious---the most direct way of modeling "reduction of nominal effectiveness" for a single human/elf/dwarf/whatever is to assume that it has suffered physical debilitation or personal injury.

But in truth, moving between the higher-level, broader abstraction of "nominal effectiveness" into the lower-level, more specific abstraction of "suffers personal injury" is always going to be a mess---consider the well-documented nonsense of a 12th-level fighter falling 200 feet, picking himself off the ground and saying, "Huh, better be more careful next time."

In many cases it would be easier to model "reduction in nominal effectiveness" outside the hit point pool entirely. Fall damage, for example, works far better if you accept the idea that falling 200 feet reduces your "nominal effectiveness" by simply killing you outright, rather than merely reducing your "hit point" pool by some randomized number.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Gary Gygax had a thread here at one point. This is what he said to someone asking about hit points, so it represents his opinions at a point much more recently than 1e.

"That's easy. HPs represent not only the physical person, but that one's luck, skill in avoiding damage. As luck runs low, muscles tire, and reflexes slow their measure, HPs. are lost to reflect this. The last few remaining are the actual physical body being harmed. Okay, its rationalizing, but it works pretty well, I think."
 

Horwath

Legend
I always see HPs as an abstraction, your combat skill, dodge, parry, sometimes even dumb luck.

I.E. two 1st level characters; lvl1 barbarian with 12 con and lvl1 wizard with 12 con. 13 HP vs 7 HP. I doubt that being barbarian gives you almost double the meat/fat to cleave through until you get to vital organs. Especially as they both have 12 constitution.

Barbarian simply knows how to turn a hit that would cleave your head off into glancing blow or a parry.
 

Yunru

Banned
Banned
Hit points are a conglomerate of many abstractions of things that make you live.

Because of that, it cannot be more defined.
 


ljblakey

First Post
The thing that bugs me is why do I have to reduce a target to zero hit points to knock them out? If HP is measuring your ability to take blows (by actively dodging, deflecting etc) then knocking someone out should be much easier (if the circumstances are right of course).

Which is why I've home-ruled that it's a STR vs CON opposed check. Disadvantage if the target is larger and advantage if the target is smaller.

So if someone wants to sneak up and knock a guard out that's all they have to do. Of course if they fail then combat will most likely break out but at least they have a decent chance of succeeding without requiring an extended combat.
I like the concept of your home rule

STR vs Con

How do you determine how long the opponent is unconscious for?

Thanks for sharing this concept

Sent from my LG-H812 using EN World mobile app
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
I like the concept of your home rule

STR vs Con

How do you determine how long the opponent is unconscious for?

Thanks for sharing this concept

Sent from my LG-H812 using EN World mobile app

Glad you like it. 10 minutes - enough time to secure and gag them before they regain consciousness. If you want some randomness: 5 mins + 1d10.
 

snickersnax

Explorer
Hit points are a conglomerate of many abstractions of things that make you live.

Because of that, it cannot be more defined.

The problem with hit points as abstractions is that not only does damage become an abstraction, but, healing and resting become abstractions. Temporary hit points become meta-abstractions. Falling damage at mid to high levels become ridiculous.

And you are left with the immersion-crushing conclusion that its just a game.

Imagine if a few rule/math changes made hit points less abstract, damage and healing could be less abstract, the elephant in the rest room might get smaller or disappear, high level characters may stop their cliff diving antics, 1st level fragilness and hitpoint bloat could both disappear. DMs might not have to buff high-level encounters in weird ways. Ancients Dragons could be great again...
 


Wrathamon

Adventurer
As folks have mentioned a poisoned weapon always delivers its poison so it must always actually penetrate skin
We've all seen duels in the movies where the opponents get cut and bloodied before the killing blow is landed.

I am sure this was discussed ...

IMO it doesn't always deliver its poison ... old school rules you have saves (now I know poison damage is a thing so you have to abstract that as well)

I think you describe the action AFTER the results not at each step of the action.

example:
goblin with poison arrow fires and "hits" a player ... hit meaning able to cause hit point loss.

player rolls a save for the poison and subtracts the damage

But what happened? ... depends on the results

DM explains
if they make the save .. the arrow barely misses the player and the poison was never delivered, but the player is a bit more tired because they dodged out of the way just in time. The next one might be their last!

if they fail the save ... the arrow nicked the player .. small scratch but "oh no it's a poison arrow!"

If the arrow drops them below 0 ... it strikes them in the chest and they go down and start to bleed out

If they fail the save ... and the poison drops them below zero from hp loss ... you could save the arrow sticks in their leg but as you pull it out ... its poisoned!!! and the poison kills them

Basically, during combat not very many blows actually Strike to deal serious damage. 0 - 3 if you describe it right.
Example: Brienne vs Arya fight ... they were both low on HITPOINTS even thou no actual fatal blow was struck. They stopped the dual before either of them reached zero. You could say they kept missing ... Brienne got a kick in and Arya struck a hand for low damage. So for a big fight both players rolled like garbage? I think they rolled well, but the description of the fight was what we saw.
 

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