D&D 5E Wizard Evoker Overchannel - Most Powerful Combo

BigBadDM · Oct 2, 2017

neogod22 said:
Ok if I were a wizard and was going to overcharge a spell, it would probably be cloud kill. It's an AOE that lasts 10mins. There's nothing in the description that it had to be a spell that only does damage once. You get creatures trapped in an area and they will take 40 or 20 every round until they die.

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I see this as a tremendous idea, especially if you have synergies with other characters forcing baddies to stay in the cloud. I always found Cloud Kill lacking, but with overchannel definitely not the case. Good find.

neogod22 · Oct 2, 2017

For wizards, it's not about single target damage. It's about controlling the battlefield. A wizard can take a out multiple adds with a fireball, or cut off the enemy with a well placed wall. A hold spell can allow the warriors to crit the enemy to death whereas a charm spell might let you avoid a fight all together. This is what wizards are made for. They can never keep up with a warlock or rogue when it comes to single target damage.

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Dausuul · Oct 2, 2017

BigBadDM said:
Is there an Overchanneled Spell a 14th Level Evoker that can cast that does more damage than Chromatic Orb (cast in the 5th level spot?).

Yes, because of Empowered Evocation and Jeremy Crawford's ruling (unless it has been changed, it was a while ago) that magic missile rolls only once and uses the same result for each missile.

Your chromatic orb's damage roll is 61: 7d8 maximized, +5 for Empowered Evocation. (I assume you have 20 Int at this level, because why on earth wouldn't you?) Then reduce that by whatever the percent chance is for you to miss. You can make that chance quite small if you dump feats and things into it, but the chance remains.

Your magic missile's damage roll is 10: 1d4+1 maximized, +5 for Empowered Evocation. But then you get seven missiles in your fifth-level slot. So your total damage output is 70. And you never, ever, ever miss.

Not that it really matters. Having the best single-target damage output of an evoker is like having the world's fastest three-legged horse. The martial classes are always going to put you in the shade. Mass destruction is where evokers rock the house.

BigBadDM · Oct 2, 2017

neogod22 said:
For wizards, it's not about single target damage. It's about controlling the battlefield. A wizard can take a out multiple adds with a fireball, or cut off the enemy with a well placed wall. A hold spell can allow the warriors to crit the enemy to death whereas a charm spell might let you avoid a fight all together. This is what wizards are made for. They can never keep up with a warlock or rogue when it comes to single target damage.

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I don't see the point of this post and how it relates to the topic. Isn't it a given?

Why have spells like disintegrate then? Yes, Wizards are usually about crowd control; wizardry 101. Sorry, I am missing your point here.

Sometimes you are fighting a Pit Fiend with adv again spell saves. Sometimes 20 skeletons. Sometimes you want to do crowd control, sometimes you want to damage to 10 enemies, sometimes you want to do damage to one. And sometimes you just want to escape. Yep, a wizard does all those things.

Nod_Hero · Oct 3, 2017

I don't have my papers in front of me but I remember taking a look through the spells when my evoker got to level 14 and if I recall correctly, Blight was the highest single target and Cone of Cold was the highest multi-target spells cast at 5th level to use with Overchannel.

mellored · Oct 3, 2017

Over channeled level 5 fireball does 60.
Over channeled cone of cold is 64.
Over channeled level 5 blight does 72.

All with half on a miss.

If you took 3 levels of assassin rogue, lucky, a level of cleric for bless, then chromatic orb comes out very nice.
But then, your 4 levels behind, which means no meteor swarm.

UngeheuerLich · Oct 3, 2017

Cromatic orb is an ok spell. It can give you whatever kind of damage you need. The 50gp diamond is a problem at low level however.
A sorcerer cam get some mileage out of that spell. True strike might help not wasting slots. Scaling cantrips like fire bolt may surpass a true strike boosted cromatic orb soon.

Phazonfish · Oct 9, 2017

BigBadDM said:
I don't see the point of this post and how it relates to the topic. Isn't it a given?

Why have spells like disintegrate then? Yes, Wizards are usually about crowd control; wizardry 101. Sorry, I am missing your point here.

Sometimes you are fighting a Pit Fiend with adv again spell saves. Sometimes 20 skeletons. Sometimes you want to do crowd control, sometimes you want to damage to 10 enemies, sometimes you want to do damage to one. And sometimes you just want to escape. Yep, a wizard does all those things.

I think the point is that while wizards can do all those things, other classes are so much better at single target damage that you probably shouldn't go too far out of your way build your character to do something someone else is gonna do better anyway.

If you had already decided to make an evoker, then sure, pick up chromatic orb, but don't pick an evoker just for a combo like this.

Afterall, Overchannel Chromatic Orb does 60 damage, hits via attack roll, and consumes a 5th level spell slot and a use of a once per day ability (or else ~32.5hp). A GWM fighter of the same level does about 66, hits via 3 attack rolls (less left to luck), and consumes no resources (they can hit twice as hard if they pop an action surge). The frenzied barbarian can do the same thing, trading away action surge for advantage on attacks and rage damage.

Lucas Blackstone · Oct 9, 2017

The OP wasn't saying " A wizard is the best single target damage class in the game, please help me pick the best overchannel spell to prove this." All they wanted to know was what people thought the best overchannel spell was in people's opinion.

I agree with Dasuul's that Magic Missile is the best bet in most cases.