Harassment At PaizoCon 2017

In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.

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In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.


Stories of harassment within tabletop gaming, at conventions and stores, and even in local gaming groups are nothing new. That is probably the saddest fact of this whole thing: that despite stories being brought to light, not only does harassment continue to happen but the existence of it continues to be denied by some. This denial is one of the factors that allows abuse and harassment to continue within tabletop RPGs.

Allegations of improper behavior at the 2017 PaizoCon by Frog God Games CEO Bill Webb were brought to life by Pathfinder content creator Robert Brookes. Brookes was attending PaizoCon and has written for Paizo and Legendary Games, among others. In an incident involving alcohol, Webb allegedly sexually harassed another guest at the convention and when a staffer attempted to intervene and injury occurred with the staffer.

In a thread about harassment and abuse on gaming forum RPGNet, Frog God Games partner Matt Finch, creator of the Swords & Wizardry retroclone, confirmed that the incident with Webb occurred, and revealed some details about an internal investigation that the partners of Frog God Games conducted into the incident:

"I am Matt Finch, the partner of Frog God Games appointed by the partners to investigate a sexual harassment complaint filed against Mr. Webb at PaizoCon 2017. Mr. Webb was not consulted by the partners on this decision. Due to recent accusations made on Twitter by a third party, I will outline the aspects of the situation to the extent that they do not compromise the confidentiality of the person who filed the report, I will describe the nature of our internal investigation, and will also address the recently-raised tweets by Robert Brookes on his twitter feed. This report will not necessarily be updated; it stands for itself at the time of posting, based on the knowledge I currently have.

"First, it is correct that a complaint was filed with Paizo at PaizoCon against Bill. I was made aware of this by phone on the day it happened (I was not present at the convention). Frog God is aware of the identity of the person who made the complaint, because they spoke to three of our partners at the convention after the event. We have not been invited to share that person’s identity, and although we are not under legal obligation to protect that confidentiality we have elected to respect that person’s desire not to have the event brought into the spotlight.

"Gathering information in a situation like this is necessarily limited due to Paizo’s own confidentiality obligations. To assemble information, I spoke to the three partners who had talked with the person who filed the complaint, and obtained their accounts of what they were told. Secondhand accounts are not perfect, and I had to weigh that against the fact that an attorney making direct contact with someone who has filed such a report can be seen as a threat or intimidation, and weighing those two issues, I chose to rely on a comparison of the conversations between the individual and our partners, plus Paizo’s own resolution of the matter at the time, plus a necessarily-cautious review of Bill’s account. There has been contact between the person who filed the complaint and Frog God partners since the event, and I will provide a screenshot of one such communication with the name redacted. I believe the screenshot provides a great deal of clarification.

"Reducing the event to a level that will maintain confidentiality, my understanding based on my investigation was that Bill Webb took an action and engaged in speech that could be construed as a sexual advance or as gender-dismissive.

"In consequence of this finding, I and another senior partner of the company had a meeting with Mr. Webb about expectations, standards of behavior, and future protocol. We addressed that one’s lack of bad intentions does not excuse problematic behavior.

"Some people have asked that Mr. Webb acknowledge and apologize for the situation. Bill does deeply regret his actions, and understands that they were inappropriate and upsetting. I have told Mr. Webb not to contact the person directly, for the same reason that I have not done so myself: the potential for that contact to appear intimidating or threatening. However, at whatever time the person lets us know that a direct apology from Mr. Webb would be welcomed, that apology will be immediately forthcoming. Mr. Webb is also under instruction not to discuss this matter in public, in case peripheral details were to be inadvertently disclosed that might allow the identification of the person by another party. This is also the reason we chose to have me, as the investigating partner, write the public report, given that a report has become necessary in response to a recent description of the event on Twitter."


We reached out to Webb for comment upon this incident, and we were directed to the RPGNet post by Finch. This is the company's official statement on what happened at PaizoCon. Whether or not there will be further repercussions within Frog God Games due to this incident and Webb's actions remain to be seen.

Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens has released an official statement on the incident on the Paizo forums. When EN World reached out to Paizo for official comment, we were directed to this statement:

"My name is Lisa Stevens and I am the CEO and owner of Paizo Inc. Events of the past few weeks have compelled me to make this statement.

"My company will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our employees, male or female. We will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our customers on paizo.com or at sanctioned organized play activities. Whenever I hear any allegations of sexual harassment or assault related to Paizo’s activities, I always immediately drop whatever I'm doing and I make getting to the bottom of these issues my top priority. We have banned people from paizo.com. We have banned people from participating in our organized play activities. We have stopped doing business with individuals. And we will continue to do so.
"As a woman and a survivor of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of these attacks. I know what it is like to feel the shame, the terror, how it changes your life forever. And because of this, I will never stand for my company to condone this behavior.

"Paizo’s employees are encouraged to come forward with any allegations of sexual harassment or assault and let a manager know as soon as possible. If criminal activities have taken place, they are encouraged to report it to the police and take legal action against the perpetrator. We have asked our employees to not engage in explosive and angry dialogue on paizo.com. We want our website to be a place where our customers feel safe and among friends. If there is problem on paizo.com, then our community team will handle it and, where appropriate, ban the perpetrator.

"In closing, you have my word that I have zero tolerance for sexual harassment and assault, and the same is true of Paizo. Please be aware that we treat these issues with tremendous sensitivity, and only disclose the specifics and resolutions of any such incidents on a need-to-know basis, even within Paizo or with our legal counsel. We do not and will not discuss these matters publicly. Every instance that I am aware of has been thoroughly investigated, and appropriate actions have been taken or are in the process of being taken. You have my word on this."


Unrelated to the PaizoCon incident, Brookes also revealed an incident of harassment within the Pathfinder Society organized play program. When a volunteer staffer reported this incident, their supervisor informed them that an NDA they had signed to be part of the program would not allow her to discuss this incident. Paizo has not officially commented on this incident or commented on whether or not there is an investigation into it.

If tabletop role-playing games are truly going to be an inclusive, we have to be better about not just reporting incidents of abuse and harassment but being dedicated to creating spaces that are safe and free of harassment of our fellow gamers. We also need to shine a spotlight onto the incidents of harassment that occur, it is the responsibility of journalists, bloggers and gamers to do this and let people know that their actions will come to light and that they will be held responsible. It is also important to not just talk about those parts of the gaming communities that we don't agree with, but to also bring to light the improper actions of those companies and communities with whom we do agree, because unless every act of harassment is revealed there will be no change within our communities.

Remember that EN World is an inclusive community.
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mudbunny

Community Supporter
I didn’t really follow all the strange analogies. Is somebody suggesting we’ve “reached the moon” in terms of dealing with harassment in our community? We haven’t. We’re not even the Wright Brothers yet. We’re still shooting for the moon.


For me, "reaching the moon" was exposing people for their harassment. And if I gave the impression that we have done that, so we can stop exposing people, I apologize for my words, I never, ever meant to indicate so. Rather, we need to continue doing so, and making it such that people realize that the actions of the "old boys club" that may have been considered acceptable back in the day are not f****** acceptable now, and that should you do it, the rest of the community and industry will come down on you like a ton of bricks and your chance of getting invited to future industry events is as likely as FATAL being nominated for best RPG of all time.

Again, if I gave the impression that we have done as much as we need to, I apologize.
 

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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
But you know, keep trivialising child abuse, because who cares, right?

Look if you want to abuse children in DnD there are already 101 ways. How can you look at all the horrible awful things that Demons can do and then isolate one example while ignoring all the other evil twisted things that are in there? These are supposed to be the guys you fight.
 

mudbunny

Community Supporter
It's the difference between providing someone with a fully stocked chemistry lab, and letting them decide what they want to do with it, knowing they could do something bad, and providing someone with a series of one-button synthetic procedures to make date rape drugs.
 

unknowable

Explorer
What does gay have to do with anything? If i'm being followed by anyone I don't want to be followed by, I do what any intelligent human being does, I move towards security. If i'm not being physically threatened by a weapon or or appearance of imminent physical attack, it's just a cat calling creep following me, which security will deal with.

Of course, i'm sure now i'll be told I have male privilege blah blah. Anyone can walk away and move towards security. Anyone can scream for attention if grabbed or attacked. Once you get to security, they can escort anyone where they feel they need to go and deal with the follower.
Well given their response to the matter I am going to say it isn't much of a stretch to assume that the victim doesn't enjoy confrontations and as they said "didn’t want to make a scene when his family was there"

Not THAT confusing matey.

As for yelling for security, depeding on where it is someone can feel worried or concerned that it might escalate before they arrive, that they won't arrive or that if they do arrive that the victim won't be supported effectively.
Who knows, maybe she had been drinking and because of emotions / anxiety regarding the matter she wasn't in an objective space. She might be reliving PTSD events from her past and suffering from a heightened form of anxiety.

Now i am male, but I also spent a bit over two years of my childhood dealing with sexual abuse and rape, from two separate individuals. Then after growing up a bit more at age 15 and at my mother's friend's new years party a drunken guest forced herself on me when i went to the toilet.
It is all well to assume that i "could" have fought back or cried out but my experiences in life had inpacted how i responded the situation.

It isn't just because of fear or age either, heck I have a scar on my palm because i misjudged the knife of a person who tried to mug me. Different events inform different expectations.

Were there things the victim could have done, probably, but that has nothing to do with how judgements of the perpetrator should be handled.
 

evilref

Explorer
Look if you want to abuse children in DnD there are already 101 ways. How can you look at all the horrible awful things that Demons can do and then isolate one example while ignoring all the other evil twisted things that are in there? These are supposed to be the guys you fight.

Except that wasn't the rules that were presented, and I note that you ignored all the substansive points.

Mechanically incentivised child abuse.

You abuse kids, you get better at abusing kids, in exactly the same way that RL abusers do it.

They could have just described a cult in broad terms and left it up to individual DMs, instead they went all in and said that abusing kids makes you more charismatic and gives you spells that makes you better at abusing children.

The only reason to have mechanics is with the expectation or understanding that they see play at tables.

So are you going to be rolling saving throws for the children to see if they succumb to unnatural lust?

Are you going to be casting it on players attacking that cultist, so you can magically abuse their characters?

There were dozens of ways to present this (and let's remember that no one made them write this, it was a deliberate development and editorial decision to have this in the game, it wasn't needed, there was no gaping hole of not enough things to fight that this needed to fill, someone wanted to include this, and someone chose to make it directly, exactly recreate RL abuse).

And yes, as you said, there are 101 ways already, so why include mechanically incentivised child abuse if any DM could already do it?

And, again, ignoring the substansive points, because they're hard to argue against, aren't they?
 

mudbunny

Community Supporter
To me, this statblock comes across as trying to be "LOOK AT HOW MATURE THIS BOOK IS!! SO INCREDIBLY MATURE!! SEE!! PURE MATURITY! LOOK!! ADULT TOPICS!!"
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
As the author of the material in question let me just state that while I did not create Folca originally (I don't know who on staff created them to add to the appendix in the back of BotD 3 which I wrote the entirety of) I was contracted the write the flavor text for all of the daemonic harbingers. Given the original plausible subtext for Folca it was not the most pleasant thing to write, but I didn't have the option to just not write something on my outline so I tried to present something that was hideous and evil. I would not personally use Folca or their followers directly in a game, outside of them existing like a boogieman to drive home the absolute horror of Abaddon as a plane. I would never explicitly describe anything by Folca in a game, rather just let that particular monster stay in the dark and let the players' brains fill in the hideous specifics.

I can't comment on the mechanical aspects of the entry for Folca as the content changed during development and out of professional tact I'm not comfortable getting into a discussion about specific developer changes versus turnover. I apologize for any offense at the material. Please don't insinuate damaging and ludicrous things about anyone that wrote or developed the material.
 
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James Jacobs

Adventurer
As the developer of the Book of the Damned, I can indeed confirm Folca was an error of judgement.

If I had a time machine I'd go back and just cut Folca from the book entirely, since the inclusion of an entity that mirorred something like Pennywise from "It" obviously missed the mark HARD. (I wasn't involved in the initial creation of Folca back in the softcover Book of the Damned 3, but that's irrelevant to the fact that he's in the hardcover version. That inclusion, an error, is on me.)

It's something I would do differently now. Book of the Damned is indeed intended to be about evil, but that doesn't mean having ALL evils represented in it is a good thing. There's a lot of content that I took specific steps to deliberately NOT include in the book, and in hindsight this one should have been left on the cutting room floor as well.

I apologize for it, for what's that worth, and am grateful for the fact that I've been given this chance to learn from the mistake going forward in my role as Pathfinder's Creative Director.
 
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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
And, again, ignoring the substansive points, because they're hard to argue against, aren't they?

Look if a Player wants their PC to abuse children then what the heck is going to stop them? Yeah thats right, the DM.

Because I am sorry but if your character is able to put the smack down on Giants and Dragons then what mechanics do you need to abuse a level 0 child? And if you think you do need mechanics then Charm Person starts from level 1 and you dont even need Demons to get it.
 

Elf_flambe

Explorer
I have been weighing my response to this comment section since yesterday because first, I was really angry at some of the horrible replies a few people felt were appropriate...but Morrus moderates this stuff well and doesn't need me coming in and mixing it up. And several people have responded with much more clarity, compassion, and common sense, which makes me wonder if my reply is needed.

After stewing on it a bit, I think I still have a few moments of perspective that could be useful, so here goes.

I am a woman in the game business so these issues are more than a matter of individual bad-actors being gross in my hobby. This is my livelihood. This is my workplace environment, for me personally and for those who do work for the company I co-own. I have been in this business for 28 years now and one of the benefits of my longevity is that I know a lot of other game pros. I have relationships with these people going back decades at this point. I am also in a position of power that comes from that perseverence and the status of the company I have been managing for the last 17 years. In short, schmucks and creepers don't try that behavior with me or, generally, even in my vicinity because I have more power than they do and they rightly anticipate that I am not someone they can bully, belittle, or harass and come out unscathed.

Over the course of my career in games, I have been active in our professional organizations (such as they are). I served on the board of the Game Manufacturers Association, whose two most consistent and influentual benefits were (and continue to be) putting on the GAMA Trade Show (focused on business to business communications between industry professionals) and the Origins Game Expo (consumer-facing, tabletop gaming convention with a significant attendance of professionals as well as fans, players, and hobbyists). For the last several years I have also been a volunteer on the advisory committee for one of the significant programming tracks at GenCon where professionals and experts in the various categories of tabletop gaming and adjacent interests (such as podcasting, hosting smaller regional conventions and games days, working with crossover media material and more) are invited to participate as Featured Presenters on a curated track of programming (think Ted Talks for Gamers). My years of involvement with organizations specifically concerned with conventions and convention programming, I think I have a somewhat more informed understanding about issues such as attendee safety, volunteer agreements, and liability (both in the legal sense and in the social responsibility sense, which have different standards).

In discussing Bill Webb's behavior in this thread I have seen a few people willing to offer him the "but he was drunk and people do :):):):) sometimes when they're drunk..." excuse. This excuse doesn't fly for reasons others have already elaborated upon but I will tell you SPECIFICALLY why it cannot be used to soften the criticism against Bill in particular. Bill is not an occasional drunk. He is a routine, PROUD heavy-drinker. Inviting him, oo in the case of PaizoCon merely allowing him, to participate in your convention means not that he "might" be drunk but that he WILL be drunk and he's already shown that he cannot be trusted to behave according to expected standards when drunk.

This is not even remotely "insider information". Take a look at this screenshot of what appeared on the Frog God Games social media page recently, which was posted after the subject of Bill's behavior at PaizoCon crossed into being talked about openly instead of being debated behind the scenes:

View attachment 90225

The timing of that post? Not a coincidence, folks. The "mightiest king of the cons" is proud of his drinking prowess and he's going to bring it, literally, to "any convention".

That is far more than enough to make responsible convention organizers take note and weigh the potential liabilites of allowing this person to participate. It's *plenty* for other professionals to decide that "he's always been nice to me" doesn't jusitfy giving this person cover for his behavior out in the world. Folks less inclined than BJ Hensley to try to make peace and be "fair" to other parties might look at the timing and content of that posting and come to the conclusion that the "mightiest king of the cons" was, in fact, doubling down on his behavior and all but daring people to challenge him. I'm NEVER going to dictate to BJ what she should or should not do in response to her own experience but any self-righteous keyboard warrior who wants to engage in baseless speculation from the safety of their distant basement about what a victim of someone else's inappropriate behavior "SHOULD" do? You don't get a say. Sorry, I know that's a blow to your ego, especially when you're convinced you're being so rational and "fair" in your assessment but that little scenario is all in your head and this IS NOT ABOUT YOU, CHUM. And if you want to fight about it you can fight me and leave BJ out of it. I am placing myself in the path of every cretin who thinks they're entitled to take shots at the *victims* of harassment, or to declare what's "enough" harm. You will go through me and those like me before we give space to people who cannot be trusted to behave like civilized adults and the supporters who prioritize bad actors above the people they hurt.

Nicole Lindroos

Thank you very much for sharing your perspective and experience. Well said, and I applaud you. I'd heard about the Frog God ad, but hadn't seen it. Thank you for sharing it. Seeing what a company actually does says a lot more about them than just reading their press releases...

We as a society need desperately to get past the outdated notions of "boys will be boys" and that being drunk is an excuse for any sort of egregious behavior. Those sorts of behaviors weren't OK in the 50s, and the attitude towards them need to change. Silence didn't change them; confronting these abusive types to try to help them change, or shaming and shunning them if they won't, seems to be the only real path forward.

The events at PaizoCon and online with Frank Metzner hits close to home. I have two teenage daughters who enjoy a variety of geeky pursuits, like gaming and cosplay, and who we've started taking to conventions. We're trying to help them become strong, capable young women, but NO ONE should have to deal with the crap we're hearing about.

Part of that starts with trying to avoid problematic venues. There is a local gaming/SF convention that has a reputation of being rife with drunken and other despicable behavior; indeed, a teenage friend of theirs in a common area of the con was invited to a "room party"; he only backed off when he learned how truly underage she was. Needless to say, that con will never see a dime from me or my family, and I bring up the disgusting reputation of the con to anyone who mentions it. But such avoidance shouldn't be necessary. We've enjoyed a different small local gaming con for several years, and had a blast at GenCon a couple of years ago. But hearing about the PaizoCon incident reignites my concerns. It could happen anywhere.

That is probably what it will take to improve conditions, both in our hobby and society-wide. Driving the Neanderthals back to their caves, shining the light of publicity to send the cockroaches scurrying back to the shadows, then reducing the number of shadowy recesses that offer safe harbor for those of the abusive mindset. Speaking up. Educating and offering cautious acceptance for those that truly repent, apologize, atone, and demonstrate actual changed behavior should be possible for some. But at the very least, society needs to stop just accepting awful, destructive behavior as normal and acceptable.
 

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