Harassment At PaizoCon 2017

In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.

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In our post-Harvey Weinstein world, more and more people in the various entertainment industries are coming forward with allegations of abuse and harassment, both sexual and psychological. The tabletop gaming industry isn't isolated from this wave of revelation as incidents surface, and will likely continue to surface about professionals, and fans, within the gaming communities.


Stories of harassment within tabletop gaming, at conventions and stores, and even in local gaming groups are nothing new. That is probably the saddest fact of this whole thing: that despite stories being brought to light, not only does harassment continue to happen but the existence of it continues to be denied by some. This denial is one of the factors that allows abuse and harassment to continue within tabletop RPGs.

Allegations of improper behavior at the 2017 PaizoCon by Frog God Games CEO Bill Webb were brought to life by Pathfinder content creator Robert Brookes. Brookes was attending PaizoCon and has written for Paizo and Legendary Games, among others. In an incident involving alcohol, Webb allegedly sexually harassed another guest at the convention and when a staffer attempted to intervene and injury occurred with the staffer.

In a thread about harassment and abuse on gaming forum RPGNet, Frog God Games partner Matt Finch, creator of the Swords & Wizardry retroclone, confirmed that the incident with Webb occurred, and revealed some details about an internal investigation that the partners of Frog God Games conducted into the incident:

"I am Matt Finch, the partner of Frog God Games appointed by the partners to investigate a sexual harassment complaint filed against Mr. Webb at PaizoCon 2017. Mr. Webb was not consulted by the partners on this decision. Due to recent accusations made on Twitter by a third party, I will outline the aspects of the situation to the extent that they do not compromise the confidentiality of the person who filed the report, I will describe the nature of our internal investigation, and will also address the recently-raised tweets by Robert Brookes on his twitter feed. This report will not necessarily be updated; it stands for itself at the time of posting, based on the knowledge I currently have.

"First, it is correct that a complaint was filed with Paizo at PaizoCon against Bill. I was made aware of this by phone on the day it happened (I was not present at the convention). Frog God is aware of the identity of the person who made the complaint, because they spoke to three of our partners at the convention after the event. We have not been invited to share that person’s identity, and although we are not under legal obligation to protect that confidentiality we have elected to respect that person’s desire not to have the event brought into the spotlight.

"Gathering information in a situation like this is necessarily limited due to Paizo’s own confidentiality obligations. To assemble information, I spoke to the three partners who had talked with the person who filed the complaint, and obtained their accounts of what they were told. Secondhand accounts are not perfect, and I had to weigh that against the fact that an attorney making direct contact with someone who has filed such a report can be seen as a threat or intimidation, and weighing those two issues, I chose to rely on a comparison of the conversations between the individual and our partners, plus Paizo’s own resolution of the matter at the time, plus a necessarily-cautious review of Bill’s account. There has been contact between the person who filed the complaint and Frog God partners since the event, and I will provide a screenshot of one such communication with the name redacted. I believe the screenshot provides a great deal of clarification.

"Reducing the event to a level that will maintain confidentiality, my understanding based on my investigation was that Bill Webb took an action and engaged in speech that could be construed as a sexual advance or as gender-dismissive.

"In consequence of this finding, I and another senior partner of the company had a meeting with Mr. Webb about expectations, standards of behavior, and future protocol. We addressed that one’s lack of bad intentions does not excuse problematic behavior.

"Some people have asked that Mr. Webb acknowledge and apologize for the situation. Bill does deeply regret his actions, and understands that they were inappropriate and upsetting. I have told Mr. Webb not to contact the person directly, for the same reason that I have not done so myself: the potential for that contact to appear intimidating or threatening. However, at whatever time the person lets us know that a direct apology from Mr. Webb would be welcomed, that apology will be immediately forthcoming. Mr. Webb is also under instruction not to discuss this matter in public, in case peripheral details were to be inadvertently disclosed that might allow the identification of the person by another party. This is also the reason we chose to have me, as the investigating partner, write the public report, given that a report has become necessary in response to a recent description of the event on Twitter."


We reached out to Webb for comment upon this incident, and we were directed to the RPGNet post by Finch. This is the company's official statement on what happened at PaizoCon. Whether or not there will be further repercussions within Frog God Games due to this incident and Webb's actions remain to be seen.

Paizo CEO Lisa Stevens has released an official statement on the incident on the Paizo forums. When EN World reached out to Paizo for official comment, we were directed to this statement:

"My name is Lisa Stevens and I am the CEO and owner of Paizo Inc. Events of the past few weeks have compelled me to make this statement.

"My company will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our employees, male or female. We will never condone any sexual harassment or assault against any of our customers on paizo.com or at sanctioned organized play activities. Whenever I hear any allegations of sexual harassment or assault related to Paizo’s activities, I always immediately drop whatever I'm doing and I make getting to the bottom of these issues my top priority. We have banned people from paizo.com. We have banned people from participating in our organized play activities. We have stopped doing business with individuals. And we will continue to do so.
"As a woman and a survivor of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, I know what it is like to be on the receiving end of these attacks. I know what it is like to feel the shame, the terror, how it changes your life forever. And because of this, I will never stand for my company to condone this behavior.

"Paizo’s employees are encouraged to come forward with any allegations of sexual harassment or assault and let a manager know as soon as possible. If criminal activities have taken place, they are encouraged to report it to the police and take legal action against the perpetrator. We have asked our employees to not engage in explosive and angry dialogue on paizo.com. We want our website to be a place where our customers feel safe and among friends. If there is problem on paizo.com, then our community team will handle it and, where appropriate, ban the perpetrator.

"In closing, you have my word that I have zero tolerance for sexual harassment and assault, and the same is true of Paizo. Please be aware that we treat these issues with tremendous sensitivity, and only disclose the specifics and resolutions of any such incidents on a need-to-know basis, even within Paizo or with our legal counsel. We do not and will not discuss these matters publicly. Every instance that I am aware of has been thoroughly investigated, and appropriate actions have been taken or are in the process of being taken. You have my word on this."


Unrelated to the PaizoCon incident, Brookes also revealed an incident of harassment within the Pathfinder Society organized play program. When a volunteer staffer reported this incident, their supervisor informed them that an NDA they had signed to be part of the program would not allow her to discuss this incident. Paizo has not officially commented on this incident or commented on whether or not there is an investigation into it.

If tabletop role-playing games are truly going to be an inclusive, we have to be better about not just reporting incidents of abuse and harassment but being dedicated to creating spaces that are safe and free of harassment of our fellow gamers. We also need to shine a spotlight onto the incidents of harassment that occur, it is the responsibility of journalists, bloggers and gamers to do this and let people know that their actions will come to light and that they will be held responsible. It is also important to not just talk about those parts of the gaming communities that we don't agree with, but to also bring to light the improper actions of those companies and communities with whom we do agree, because unless every act of harassment is revealed there will be no change within our communities.

Remember that EN World is an inclusive community.
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ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
Wow. Threads like this a constant reminder that while there are good, even-handed people who see that decent treatment of another human being is a low bar that should be easily hurdled and not a "political issue". It also shows that there are a fair amount of people in the hobby who are pretty selfish and vile sociopaths as well.

Glad that there seems to be more of the first group here and fewer of the latter.
 

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ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
If your initial reaction was to side against the victim, you really need to re-examine your attitudes.

If that's their initial reaction then there's no amount of re-examination of attitudes that are going to change them and suddenly make them empathic human beings . Make note of who they are , minimize your dealings with them and move on.
 



Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Identity politics will not help you in the long run.

...I understand the caution regarding identifying the victim name because our hobby has quite a number of gross MRA/Gamergate/Red Pill types, a few of whom have already reared their ugly heads in this very thread! They admitted it happened, and it sounds like their investigation and decisions on what to do are forthcoming. Not amazing, but honestly better than I expected from our hobby, given it's history as a (straight, white) boy's club...

First off, I come from a small town in central (rural) Illinois. When I discovered this hobby, the first place I went to was in a poorer section of Decatur. Because of it's location, it wasn't some straight white club hobby shop. Secondly, the last town I moved to in Illinois before I self-exiled to Texas, was Peoria. It had a few places around town, and the local TT gamer community was pretty well diversified (1987 vs. 2007).

Seeing the 'word' cis in front of anything, or reading 'redpill', or even the word Trump makes me quite dismissive of anything by said poster. My politics are easy to find, but in my hobby, I look at people and want the felony for responding with violence to their idiocy.

Putting politics in games, hurts it. You want to make your game elitist, fine. Put in politics, make your stance known, and throw buzzwords like diversity around, flash your Starbucks cup, too.

Our hobby is known as an escapist one for a reason. It should be the one place, where people can come together after they set aside differences--those belong at the coat check. I think most people leave the scene because of responsibilities like family, or job. But a quick second is, they don't feel welcome.

While the behavior at the convention might not be acceptable, the behavior from the majority of sober folks (I'm not sober as I'm typing this, some of you might not be, either) is disgusting. I don't need everyone to think like me, and clean their guns as they are a proud three-percenter. I'm also not really wanting everyone in the world to be a massive Scrubs fan or a fanatic of Zardoz...but this hobby is pretty damn huge. It will have parts of it spill into other parts of our lives, I'm certain of this.

But trying to make it exclusive for the sake of diversity is not what the spirit was when the founders were making this game in Lake Geneva and at Dave's table in Minnesota. We should not applaud the actions made poorly, but this hobby and it's people should be of the forgiving sort. Unless you are the type that can't forgive, that would rather not forgive. And I can't see anyone who has polyhedral die being that type.

My focus on this post was to be condescending of those who want to use "cis," and "straight white male" like it's terrible to be of that stripe or not. We're gamers. Condone the harmful action, love the person who committed it, and allow for forgiveness.


Please review the rules:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/misc.php?do=showrules

Just so you know why, specifically, you are being asked to leave the thread.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
The issue here is that there's no sign there was any kind of corrective action taken (even as small as "Webb will not go to conventions for a while"), given that Webb's reputation for being really bad when drunk was apparently well-known even before this point.

This is what I'm waiting to see. I've loved Necromancer's/Frog God's products, but how they respond to this will determine if I'm going to continue to support them or not. We all make mistakes, but how you respond when you injure another party is key (at least, for me).
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
So whats the real story here? All I see is
* Guy gets drunk.
* Guy hits on woman verbally. No physical touching?
* Woman rejects advances.
* Possible rude names used by Guy?
* Woman leaves area.
* Guy follows woman from unspecified distance.
* Guy2 gets in between and get in fight with Guy
* Someone possibly hits another person with fire extinguisher?
* No cops called, Everyone goes separate ways.
* Demonization of and calls for Guy to lose his job over unspecified "harassment" that no one wants to clearly lay out.

Do I have all the facts correct?

No; that scenario appears to be one you just made up.
 

Obryn

Hero
If that's their initial reaction then there's no amount of re-examination of attitudes that are going to change them and suddenly make them empathic human beings . Make note of who they are , minimize your dealings with them and move on.
Remember, a lot of these folks are sticking with unrealistic legalistic standards that simply don't apply in actual human day to day life.

And only applying them on one side, too. It's cool, you see, to believe the harasser should be considered innocent of harassment until the accuser reaches an unspecified, unrealistic, and ever-increasing burden of proof that will never be quite enough (even, just a few posts ago, a victim statement and the companies' own responses to the incidents.)

But heaven forfend we give the accuser the same benefit of the doubt when they're accused of maliciously lying to ruin some guy's reputation. Because it's okay in their minds to treat them as a liar unless proven otherwise, you see.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

Remember, a lot of these folks are sticking with unrealistic legalistic standards that simply don't apply in actual human day to day life.

And only applying them on one side, too. It's cool, you see, to believe the harasser should be considered innocent of harassment until the accuser reaches an unspecified, unrealistic, and ever-increasing burden of proof that will never be quite enough (even, just a few posts ago, a victim statement and the companies' own responses to the incidents.)

But heaven forfend we give the accuser the same benefit of the doubt when they're accused of maliciously lying to ruin some guy's reputation. Because it's okay in their minds to treat them as a liar unless proven otherwise, you see.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Agree entirely. "Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" is the standard of evidence in criminal trials (and if it went to criminal trial, I would wholeheartedly support that). Even civil trials don't even meet that standard and instead rely on "preponderance of evidence." But this isn't even an example of that. This is a question of safety at a privately run convention as well as individual consumer buying decisions.

Of course, we have multiple witnesses all in agreement about what happened, and even Bill Webb via Frog God Games admitting it happened - and yet people still wave the "innocent until proven guilty" flag around. Makes you kinda wonder what would ever actually prove someone guilty of sexual harassment in the eyes of some people?

All too often there is the unspoken standard of "liar until proven true" but for some reason pretty much only in cases of women accusing men of sexual harassment and assault. Funny that.
 

Not sure what Paizo did wrong here. Seemed they offered immediate condemnation for the perpetrator and support for the victim. Did you read BJ Hensley's response? Can you elaborate where you thought they failed?

This is a very difficult but important question that gets missed in this. On the one hand, you have respecting what the victim requested being very important. (And given my personality, if I was that person, I might have very well made the same decision.)

However, there is the issue of safety at future conventions. In many other fan conventions (especially beyond RPG community), this would be an uncontroversial, easy decision, perma-ban from all future conventions.

However2, that conflicted with how the victim wanted it resolved. So going against the wishes of the one who is harmed can have a very definite impact on reports and lead to less people reporting. (Although, in this case, it sounds like it was public enough that relying on a report wasn't necessary.) But that is a definite concern since cases are underreported anyway.

However3, one of the reasons the victim gave for not wanting Bill banned longer is that it could negatively impact Frog God Games (given their close reliance on Pathfinder), and she has friends who work for them that could be harmed by that. The problem there is that this directly leads to the more influential someone is then the more they can get away with because more people rely on them for work. Which, I would hope, is not something we want to indirectly cause. (But see note above about how I'd likely decide the same thing in that situation, and absolutely 1000% do not fault the victim for wanting that.)

Add in the common human instinct (especially when business is involved) for Paizo to settle the situation quietly but attendees for safety reasons often wanting to hear about these very clearly. Plus Paizo's responsibility to the victim, responsibility to other attendees, responsibility to their own employees (safety and livelihood) and on and on.

It's extremely complicated. Even as someone who taught and studied business ethics, I certainly don't have an answer for this one. It's likely to be a situational answer relying on a case by case basis, rather than a blanket answer. Unfortunately, the more situational an answer is, the easier it is to go very wrong.
 

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