5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet - Page 3
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraDave View Post
    That's probably what he was trying to say. I don't think he got it quite right.
    I did not find his statement at all unclear, but if you want to complain about a lack of nuance, the reason is pretty obvious: Twitter.

    The inability to express complex thoughts on Twitter has been a problem since it began. It might be slightly less of a problem with the new character limit, but I expect it will still be a while before any real changes manifest.

    I'd say to stop using the mechanical problem as an excuse to blame the speaker, but I feel the same about Jeremy Crawford's rule-clarification tweets, so am hardly in a position to cast stones.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
    Funny thing is I actually had the opposite reaction to her hiring. A quick glance over her previous projects seemed to be totally lacking in D&D-related things, but instead experience working with other game systems. While fresh ideas are welcome, my only worry was that bringing in someone with much more of an outsider perspective in terms of game mechanics could actually lead to MORE rules complexity.
    She was hired as a designer, not a developer. The designer role is someone who can see the big picture and ask "what-if" questions. It's up to the developer to turn those ideas into mechanics. Her prior experience with UI/UX development implies that she'd be able to look at the mechanics the developers come up with and get a sense of whether or not they both represent her intended outcome *and* whether or not they get in the way of themselves and make gameplay unwieldy.

    Ignore her gender. Ignore her specific prior experience to look at the whole of it and WotC considered her qualified. Her network of friends and acquaintances may have helped her get considered, but her skills and experience need to stand on their own. WotC seems to think they do. Either she'll be successful or she won't. Just like any other candidate selected by WotC for a position.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Monte Cook once wrote this about their design decisions for 3e D&D:



    Now Monte Cook changed his mind later about some of those decisions. But, he's saying they made those decisions when designing third edition. One way to I think fairly restate what he said is that in some aspects of 3e, the designers intended to use the rules complexity to gatekeep the game.

    By implication, Mearls is implying Monte Cook might have a problem with women in gaming because he supported (at that time) rules gatekeeping.

    I don't think Mearls intends to say that, but then that's my point - it's not a very thoughtfully worded tweet. I don't think there is a strong correlation between the two types of opinions and I don't think Mearls is privy to any evidence supporting his claim they're correlated.

    Game designers change their minds in hindsight, Mentzer for example recently said BECMI going to level 36 was a mistake and if he had to do it over again it would top out at 20.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3catcircus View Post
    She was hired as a designer, not a developer. The designer role is someone who can see the big picture and ask "what-if" questions. It's up to the developer to turn those ideas into mechanics.
    Sorry, I'm not super in-the-know about job titles and descriptions for tabletop RPGs (or other games, really). If that's the case, then fresh perspectives are certainly welcome - lots of recent additions to the game seem to be either mined from old D&D content or incredibly boring (see: the Brute fighter subclass). Personally I'd like to see more design in terms of classes, races, spells, and monsters that are both interesting and not tied at the hip to D&D canon. This is especially true when it comes to lore and flavor text; as a new player it felt really limiting playing a game where you can supposedly attempt to be or do anything you want to have these really restrictive descriptions of who races worship or how they act or whatever. Basically, I want more setting-neutral design, so fresh blood could be really helpful in that regard.

    I'm not sure if your second paragraph was directed at me specifically...but I think you're off the mark making those assumptions about me.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zardnaar View Post
    Game designers change their minds in hindsight, Mentzer for example recently said BECMI going to level 36 was a mistake and if he had to do it over again it would top out at 20.
    Yes. And? At the time he thought it was a good decision. So did the other designers working on 3e. And it was baked into those 3e rules, so a lot of people who liked those rules enjoyed the concept as well. Is Mike Mearls implying he was likely sexist at that time? I doubt it but that's the implication of his tweet.

    I see zero correlation between those who enjoy rules as a form of gatekeeping for a game, and those who have problems with women in gaming. I know several women who are hardcore on viewing rules as a good means of gatekeeping, who have zero issues with women in gaming. In fact one was a Women's Studies professor, who went on to be the President of a college. She's devilish in the pleasure she takes in rules and system mastery as a gatekeeping device for gaming (mostly complex German Euro board games) - and simultaneously a huge advocate for women in gaming.

    If someone can show me ANY evidence there is a correlation between these two concepts I am all ears.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Yes. And? At the time he thought it was a good decision. So did the other designers working on 3e. And it was baked into those 3e rules, so a lot of people who liked those rules enjoyed the concept as well. Is Mike Mearls implying he was likely sexist at that time? I doubt it but that's the implication of his tweet.

    I see zero correlation between those who enjoy rules as a form of gatekeeping for a game, and those who have problems with women in gaming. I know several women who are hardcore on viewing rules as a good means of gatekeeping, who have zero issues with women in gaming. In fact one was a Women's Studies professor, who went on to be the President of a college. She's devilish in the pleasure she takes in rules and system mastery as a gatekeeping device for gaming (mostly complex German Euro board games) - and simultaneously a huge advocate for women in gaming.

    If someone can show me ANY evidence there is a correlation between these two concepts I am all ears.
    Seems a personal preference thing to me.
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  7. #27
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    Really found these tweets non-offensive and a rather calm reaction to the awful things folks have been saying.

    Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
    Really found these tweets non-offensive and a rather calm reaction to the awful things folks have been saying.

    Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app
    Show me the connection between gatekeeping by use of rules, and issues with women in gaming. Show me how that is somehow known to be more common than, say, gamers who like Mountain Dew and who have issues with women in gaming,

    I am not seeing a connection between the awful things folks were saying about women in gaming or this hire, and having a preference for rules gatekeeping. Show me that connection.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Show me the connection between gatekeeping by use of rules, and issues with women in gaming. Show me how that is somehow known to be more common than, say, gamers who like Mountain Dew and who have issues with women in gaming,

    I am not seeing a connection between the awful things folks were saying about women in gaming or this hire, and having a preference for rules gatekeeping. Show me that connection.
    I don't have any numbers, but hey, Mearls does. It wouldn't surprise me, again note the "gatekeeping" aspect.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistwell View Post
    Show me the connection between gatekeeping by use of rules, and issues with women in gaming. Show me how that is somehow known to be more common than, say, gamers who like Mountain Dew and who have issues with women in gaming,

    I am not seeing a connection between the awful things folks were saying about women in gaming or this hire, and having a preference for rules gatekeeping. Show me that connection.
    It's not about having complexity in the rules.

    It is using rules as an excuse to berate women. It's not the rules or the complexity thereof that is the problem.

    Also see: Mansplaining
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