D&D 5E Would you define the current edition of D&D rules-light or rules-heavy?

Compared to 3e, PF and 4e: rules-light.

Compared to OD&D and the movement: rules-heavy.

So "both" is my reply.

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We've been playing some Powered by the Apocalypse Games at the store. Those are light! Character creation is entirely self-contained — pick up a "playbook" (or class), and all the options are fully described right there on the character sheet. You could hand a group of new players a stack of playbooks, go grab a slice of pizza, and come back ready to play.

Playing D&D at the store, I've found that trying to walk new players through character creation is almost impossible. Too many options to choose from and explain. Maybe if we just stuck to the Basic Rules, but once you add the PHB classes and races in, it takes more than an hour to get through the "why does this matter" stage. Pretty much obligatory to use pre-gens. On the other hand, if you do use pre-gens, it's a pretty easy game to teach on the fly, and I find the rules derive very easily. I was able to absorb the rules of 5e and start DM'ing very quickly. (Though having played earlier versions obviously helps.)

I'm getting a Traveller game together for a group of new players who REALLY want to play a science fiction game. We're using MgT, because I have the hardback. I've spent a lot of time reading through the rules trying to get everything into my head. There are dozens of skills, many of which contain associated crunch. There are lots of little rules systems about law levels, operating spaceships, fiddly hand-to-hand combat, fiddly vehicle combat, fiddly space combat. I'm putting together a screen insert with rules and only have room for basic stuff. I imagine I'll need to replace it with "2nd level" material after the first session.

So, yeah, I'd put D&D in the middle. That being said, if Rules Light is a rating that says, "This is a game you can just pick up and play," I don't think D&D, even D&D 5e, quite gets there, so I voted Rules Heavy.

TerraDave said:

I agree with the above first two replies.

By design, 5E also does a good job of letting the player or DM dial the crunch up or down to the level they prefer.

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This is why I consider 5E to be more rules-light than rules-heavy. There are a lot of rules in the PHB that my group simply doesn't use, or we streamlined them to fit our needs. We couldn't do that with 3E, where everything was integrated. And if one looks at the three core books, most of the material is reference, not something that players need to know and/or memorize. There are 900+ pages in the core books, but what's in those pages?

PHB: 320 pages, 140+ pages are races, classes, and backgrounds, 100+ pages are spell descriptions,
MM: 352 pages, pretty much all monster descriptions
DMG: 320 pages, 80+ pages are magic items

My group uses almost no material from the DMG other than magic items. Only the GM needs the MM, and that info is looked up as needed. So only the PHB is really core in terms of what players need to know. And much of that is specific race and class abilities. The actual game rules are only a fraction of the total 900 pages.

All that said, I don't expect to change anyone's mind. This poll and thread strike me as a "Tastes great! Less filling!" kind of question. The answer depends on one's expectations, preferences, and experiences.

Coming at this from a limited perspective of having played AD&D up until college and then having played a few sessions of Pathfinder last year: So... light it is. I can see how others more versed in a variety of RPGs could argue heavy.

In a way, the principle of Ability checks makes it quite rules-light. I myself have yet to read all the rules to 5E, yet I can comfortably run a campaign, because any new situation just requires an ability check. On the other hand it is still rules-heavy, because it is not uncommon for someone who has read the rules to try to quibble over something.

It is neither rules light nor rules heavy

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Given only the two options, it’s closer to heavy than it is to light. But it’s really not a rules heavy system. It’s squarely rules-medium.

I can at least see and understand the argument for rules-medium. I personally disagree, but I can acknowledge the principle, and I've made a similar argument for 4e. (I mean, I ran a 1-30 4e campaign and maybe twice, ever, cracked an actual rulebook open during play.) I'd personally put something like Shadow of the Demon Lord at the rules-medium spot - it has in-play lookup time like 5e, but the core systems are even simpler. 13A, maybe, as well.

I really can't see any argument for rules-light, though, having played and run actual rules-light games. I wouldn't even call BX/BECMI rules-light. Maybe if your only frame of reference is Pathfinder? I dunno.

Jester David said:

Without a source of comparison, it's rules medium.

Compared to Pathfinder, GURPs, or WHRP it's rules light.
Compared to Honey Heist, Dread, or All Outta Bubblegum it's rules heavy.

Honestly, it's probably closer to Pathfinder than it is to more narrative games like Vampire, Star Trek Adventures, or Genesys. So if forced to choose it'd be heavy.

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I've only played the World of Darkness Vampire, and that felt more rules-heavy to me than 5e. Were the older editions of Vampire a lot lighter?

Satyrn said:

I've only played the World of Darkness Vampire, and that felt more rules-heavy to me than 5e. Were the older editions of Vampire a lot lighter?

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No, despite the name "Storyteller" all of the WoD games in the 90's were both crunchy and combat-focused, with a kicker that the designers did a pretty bad job, and didn't even know how the math behind their own systems worked. They talked a good talk about being above it all, but they were at least as crunchy as AD&D 2e.