D&D 5E Four Elements Monk - To buff or not to buff?

Valmarius · Feb 1, 2018

I have a player who is thinking of making a Way of Four Elements monk and I've seen discourse here and there that suggests they're a little underpowered when compared to the other subclasses.
The common complaint seems to be that they run out of Ki too quickly.

Has anyone played a Four Elements Monk? What was your experience like? Were you always running short on Ki points?

My current thought is to give them a slight buff in the form of one extra ability:
Geomantic Energy.
From 3rd level, your connection to the elements allows you to siphon energy from the world around you.
Your Ki point maximum increases by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.

Ancalagon · Feb 1, 2018

That could work, or it could be related to your wisdom stat bonus... I think you solution is better honestly.

What I would state though is that those extra ki points can only be used for "magic", not the other "ordinary" monk powers.

Disclaimer: I've never played one, but I am running a game with a monk of the open hand, and seeing how the player has to be careful with her Ki point, I can easily imagine how it would be an issue for a "spellcasting" monk...

ad_hoc · Feb 1, 2018

Valmarius said:
My current thought is to give them a slight buff in the form of one extra ability:
Geomantic Energy.
From 3rd level, your connection to the elements allows you to siphon energy from the world around you.
Your Ki point maximum increases by an amount equal to your proficiency bonus.

The problem remains the same. They are now just better Monks. They are still incentivized to use their Ki on their Monk abilities, they just get more of it.

They are also now the most powerful Monk subclass.

Instead I would look to the Sun Soul. That is a well designed Monk subclass.

THEMNGMNT · Feb 1, 2018

There is a Four Elements Monk in the campaign I'm DMing. We use the "remastered" version you can find online; it has more "disciplines" from which to choose with a slightly lower ki cost. It seems to be working well and the player is very happy with his character. The monk can't take or dish out massive damage, but they are highly, highly mobile and can get anywhere they want, anytime they want. Combined with the elemental disciplines, they definitely feel like supernatural combatants. Anyway, I think your proposed fix is a good one.

rgoodbb · Feb 1, 2018

As long as there aren't any other monks in the party that might get jealous of the extra Ki, and the other players are cool with it, I say try it out for a while with the proviso that if it does seem too powerful, you will scale it back a bit.

I know someone who has played one and they were absolutely loving it until water-whip became a full action. They then still enjoyed playing it but not quite as much.

Cap'n Kobold · Feb 1, 2018

Another buff that seems to be suggested a lot is to reduce all Ki costs by one for the elemental disciplines.

Ristamar · Feb 1, 2018

I would highly recommend finding a way to reduce the costs of existing powers rather than increasing the ki pool. Otherwise you risk the PC simply spamming Stunning Strike more often instead of using the elemental powers.

Dausuul · Feb 1, 2018

Ristamar said:
I would highly recommend finding a way to reduce the costs of existing powers rather than increasing the ki pool. Otherwise you risk the PC simply spamming Stunning Strike more often instead of using the elemental powers.

Yeah, this.

I ran a 2-year campaign where one of the PCs was a Sun Soul monk, and it became clear that Stunning Strike was far and away the best use of her ki. Get up to the biggest, scariest monster, blitz it with unarmed strikes, and toss a Stunning Strike on each one until the monster blows a save. Not only does the entire party get advantage to hit, but you effectively "heal" everyone for all the damage the monster would have laid down on its turn. It was infinitely more effective than any of her "spend a bunch of ki for a little AoE damage" abilities.

As a result, while the character certainly pulled her weight in combat, she became something of a one-trick pony. It looks like the Four Elements monk has the same issue, and upping its ki pool doesn't do anything to change this dynamic. The monk will still spam Stunning Strike; it will just go on longer.

I'd focus instead on bringing down the cost of elemental abilities. Or supply a dedicated "elemental ki" pool which can only be used for those abilities.

DEFCON 1 · Feb 1, 2018

THEMNGMNT said:
There is a Four Elements Monk in the campaign I'm DMing. We use the "remastered" version you can find online; it has more "disciplines" from which to choose with a slightly lower ki cost. It seems to be working well and the player is very happy with his character. The monk can't take or dish out massive damage, but they are highly, highly mobile and can get anywhere they want, anytime they want. Combined with the elemental disciplines, they definitely feel like supernatural combatants. Anyway, I think your proposed fix is a good one.

The 4 Elements Monk has been Remastered three times... originally by SpikeTailDrake, then cleaned up by Irish Bandit, then rebalanced by SpikeTailDrake again. The remaster is my preferred Way of the 4 Elements. Ki cost is 1 point per level (putting it equal to Way of Shadow), gaining 2 Disciplines per acquisition, and more spells available in play from Elemental Evil (and thus now Xanathar's).

Check it out here and see if it work for you.

jgsugden · Feb 1, 2018

Yeah - Stun is the center of the monk tool set offensively in my experience once they hit 5th level. There are other tweaks, but it is really all about the stun. There are also builds that try to be damage machines that capitalize on damage per strike, but those tend to fall off and fail to match the big weapon fighters. My best attempt was a monk with some fighter and warlock (for hex) and he was far outclassed by the paladin and barbarian in damage - but the stuns were very important. I regretted, in the end, having those warlock and fighter levels as they delayed my multi-attack and my stun.

I do think they should rework the monk class in the same way they reworked the ranger.

D&D 5E Four Elements Monk - To buff or not to buff?

Valmarius

First Post

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon

ad_hoc

(they/them)

THEMNGMNT

Hero

rgoodbb

Adventurer

Cap'n Kobold

Hero

Ristamar

Adventurer

Dausuul

Legend

DEFCON 1

Legend

jgsugden

Legend

Similar Threads