Do We Still Need "Oriental Adventures"?

Orientalism -- a wide-ranging term originally used to encompass depictions of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and East Asian cultures -- has gradually come to represent a more negative term. Should Dungeons & Dragons, known for two well-received books titled "Oriental Adventures," have another edition dedicated to "Eastern" cultures?

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Orientalism -- a wide-ranging term originally used to encompass depictions of Middle Eastern, South Asian, and East Asian cultures -- has gradually come to represent a more negative term. Should Dungeons & Dragons, known for two well-received books titled "Oriental Adventures," have another edition dedicated to "Eastern" cultures?

[h=3]A Brief History of Orientalism[/h]For a time, orientalism was a term used by art historians and literary scholars to group "Eastern" cultures together. That changed in 1978 with Edward Said's Orientalism, which argued that treatment of these cultures conflated peoples, times, and places into a narrative of incident and adventure in an exotic land.

It's easy to see why this approach might appeal to role-playing games. Orientalism is one lens to view a non-European culture within the game's context. We previously discussed how "othering" can create a mishmash of cultures, and it can apply to orientalism as well. The challenge is in how to portray a culture with nuance, and often one large region isn't enough to do the topic justice. The concept even applies to the idea of the "East" and the "Orient," which turns all of the Asian regions into one mono-culture. Wikipedia explains the term in that context:

The imperial conquest of "non–white" countries was intellectually justified with the fetishization of the Eastern world, which was effected with cultural generalizations that divided the peoples of the world into the artificial, binary-relationship of "The Eastern World and The Western World", the dichotomy which identified, designated, and subordinated the peoples of the Orient as the Other—as the non–European Self.


Game designers -- who were often admitted fans of Asian cultures -- sought to introduce a new kind of fantasy into traditional Western tropes. Viewed through a modern lens, their approach would likely be different today.
[h=3]The "Oriental" Books in D&D[/h]The original Oriental Adventures was published in 1985 by co-creator of D&D Gary Gygax, David "Zeb" Cook and François Marcela-Froideval. It introduced the ninja, kensai, wu-jen, and shukenja as well as new takes on the barbarian and monk. It was also the first supplement to introduce non-weapn proficiencies, the precursor to D&D's skill system. The book was well-received, and was envisioned by Gygax as an opportunity to reinvigorate the line -- ambitions which collapsed when he left the company. The book's hardcover had the following text printed on the back:

…The mysterious and exotic Orient, land of spices and warlords, has at last opened her gates to the West.


Aaron Trammell provides a detailed analysis of how problematic this one line of text is. The sum of his argument:

Although Gary Gygax envisioned a campaign setting that brought a multicultural dimension to Dungeons & Dragons, the reality is that by lumping together Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Philippine, and “Southeast Asian” lore he and co-authors David “Zeb” Cook and Francois Marcela-Froideval actually developed a campaign setting that reinforced western culture’s already racist understanding of the “Orient.”


The next edition would shift the setting from Kara-Tur (which was later sent in the Forgotten Realms) to Rokugan from the Legend of the Five Rings role-playing game.
[h=3]Controversy of the Five Rings[/h]James Wyatt wrote the revised Oriental Adventures for Third Edition D&D, published by Wizards of the Coast in 2001. It was updated to 3.5 in Dragon Magazine #318.

Legend of the Five Rings, a franchise that extends to card games, is itself not immune to controversy. Quintin Smith got enough comments on his review of the Legend of the Five Rings card game that he included an appendix that looked critically at chanting phrases "banzai!" at conventions and some of the game's art:

Now, I have no idea if this is right or wrong, but I do know that chanting in Japanese at an event exclusively attended by white men and women made me feel a tiny bit weird. My usual headcheck for this is “How would I feel if I brought a Japanese-English friend to the event?” and my answer is “Even more weird.” Personally, I found the game’s cover art to be a little more questionable. I think it’s fantastic to have a fantasy world that draws on Asian conventions instead of Western ones. But in a game that almost exclusively depicts Asian men and women, don’t then put white people on the cover! It’s such a lovely piece of art. I just wish she looked a little bit less like a cosplayer.


Perhaps in response to this criticism, Fantasy Flight Games removed the "banzai" chant as a bullet point from its web site. The page also features several pictures of past tournament winners, which provides some context as to who was shouting the chant.
[h=3]Fifth Edition and Diversity[/h]By the time the Fifth Edition of D&D was published, the game's approach to diverse peoples had changed. Indigo Boock on GeekGirlCon explains how:

Diversity is strength. The strongest adventuring party is the most diverse adventuring party. Try thinking about it in terms of classes—you have your healers, fighters, and magic users. Same goes for diversity. Different outlooks on life create more mobility and openness for different situations. Jeremy also explained that it was crucial that the art also reflected diversity, as did Art Director Kate Erwin. With this, they tried to make sure that there was a 50/50 split of people who identify as male and people who identify as female in the illustrations.


Trammell points out how these changes are reflected in the art of the core rule books:

First, there are illustrations: an East Asian warlock, a female samurai, an Arabian princess, an Arab warrior, and a Moor in battle, to name a few. Then, there are mechanics: the Monk persists as a class replete with a spiritual connection to another world via the “ki” mechanic. Scimitars and blowguns are commonly available as weapons, and elephants are available for purchase as mounts for only 200 gold. Although all of these mechanics are presented with an earnest multiculturalist ethic of appreciation, this ethic often surreptitiously produces a problematic and fictitious exotic, Oriental figure. At this point, given the embrace of multiculturalism by the franchise, it seems that the system is designed to embrace the construction of Orientalist fictional worlds where the Orient and Occident mix, mingle, and wage war.


A good first step is to understand the nuances of a region by exploring more than one culture there. Sean "S.M." Hill's "The Journey to..." series is a great place to start, particularly "Romance of the Three Kingdoms."

D&D has come a long way, but it still has some work to do if it plans to reflect the diversity of its modern player base and their cultures...which is why it seems unlikely we'll get another Oriental Adventures title.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, communicator, and a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to http://amazon.com. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Tanin Wulf

First Post
When Green Ronin released Testament (Biblical background D&D), the Christians did NOT lose their heads or automatically think we were being mocked / belittled.

That's because we lost our minds with regards to RPG stuff back in the 80s. (But much like being turned into a newt, overall... we got better.) :)
 

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Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
Okay, see, now this is an utterly ridiculous statement. Because the clear implication of this statement is that Asians have had their ability to tell their own stories taken from them, but that's such a clearly asinine statement that one wonders if you put literally any thought into what you were saying before you hit Post. You might have a point if we were talking about African-Americans, but treating Asians in Asia as identical to African-Americans is completely ludicrous.

I agree that a direct 1:1 comparison was not apt, but to deny that Asians have been exploited by colonial powers is to ignore history. This is especially true when you consider the ways in which Asian-Americans were exploited and dehumanized here in the U.S, between the Age of Railroads and Chinese Exclusion Act and Japanese Internment. And yes, there is difference between Asian-Americans and the history of Asians in Asia. But they share a history and a culture, and it's that history and culture that are being exploited and mangled, primarily in the U.S., by such products as "Oriental Adventures" (btw, literally every person of Asian descent I have ever met has considered the term "Oriental" to be a slur).

I mean, quite literally, the main impetus for Asian-themed adventures is Asian cinema. The reason people want to play as Samurai is because of the films of Akira Kurosawa and Japanese manga like Lone Wolf and Cub -- i.e. products of Japanese culture. Stories about Japan told by Japanese authors.

The notion that the Japanese have been stripped of their ability to tell their own stories is just so completely at odds with incredibly obvious facts that it staggers the imagination to wonder how you thought you'd get away with such a completely baseless, nonsensical and surreal argument.

Yes, Japan has engaged in a great deal of imperial colonization and subjugation of its own, particularly in China and Korea. And yes, they've had better luck than most in the region of avoiding the ill impacts on colonization on them themselves. And yet, they are the only nation to suffer the impacts of nuclear warfare. And Japanese-Americans are the only non-native population forcefully rounded up, stripped of their possessions and forced into work camps by order of the federal government of the freedom-loving Democracy of the United States since the end of legal slavery.

Likewise, if the Chinese have been denied the ability to tell their own stories, then the only one doing that denying is the Communist Party of China and its various ministries of thought control.

See above. Also, I take it you have not heard of the Opium Wars.

Please, do elaborate. Precisely what "inequities and injustices" are being perpetuated by people engaging in role-playing games that play around with Asian tropes?

Speaking of the swath of Asian-inspired (not Asian-produced) popular culture: conscious and unconscious stereotypes and biases about actual Asian people, who are as diverse between and among themselves as any other group; the complete erasure of non-Eastern Asian cultures from being considered within the category of "Asian", including South-East Asia, Indo-China, and the Near East; the tendency to ridicule the syllables found among a wide variety of Asian languages for comedic effect; Breakfast at Tiffany's; etc.

I'm not saying that non-white people can't engage with or enjoy Asian-produced cultural artifacts; I've done so myself on multiple occasions. But uncritical and ignorant "Asian-inspired" pop culture can absolutely contribute to advancing stereotypes and biases about Asian people.

Somebody upthread already hit the nail on the head: it's not about being accurate, it's about being respectful. It seems obvious to me that the most respectful thing to do would be to let Asian people write the book on Asian-inspired fantasy and roleplaying.
 

jbear

First Post
What needs to not happen is a book full of harmful stereotypes.

A medieval Asian or Middle-eastern themed adventure certainly could be done, but only with much care.

What would be a more interesting book to me would be an Australia themed adventure. Put it on a large continent already inhabited but being flooded with prisoners from a far land - most of whom are just trying to get along. Put villains on both side of the story.
This comment is actualy kind of hilarious. So you would like an Australian themed adventure that's not full of harmful stereo types ... where the land is being flooded with prisoners who were sent to the island from a far land ... but 'most of whom are just trying to get along'? Umm ... sure, I guess if you want something purely fictional you can do whatever you want. But aren't you at the same time kind of saying that you want more historical accuracy with the 'no harmful stereotypes' part of your comment?

You are aware of the massive genocide (and all the injustives that went with it) that the australian aborigines have suffered at the hands of the island's colonists, right? 'Cos I'm pretty sure those that arrived were not 'mostly just trying to get along'.

Maybe I misuderstood something you were trying to say? Because it comes off as though you are virtue signalling on the one hand and then showing your own ignorance on the other.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
If I wanted historically accurate books for a role-playing game, I would never play any of the FANTASY role-playing games.

I want to play a fantasy rpg which uses a fantasy setting. And if that setting uses fantasy races and cultures and classes that resemble those of the real world, that is fine with me. The only thing I ask is for the truly negative stereotypes, from all real world cultures and races, to be left out of the fantasy material. This goes as far as applying them to non-human races as well. And keep the real world names to a minimum. The Realms version is Kara-Tur or Al-Qadim or Maztica, not Japan or China or Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Mexico.

I’m only seeing his idea of historical accuracy from people trying to dismiss concerns about the books in question.

It’s weird.

The rest of us are trying to have a completely different discussion, that in no way assumes any sort of historical accuracy.

Of course, when we get into the details, there will always be such debates, whether we’re discussing long words or kusari-gama, but the reason that OA is problematic has nothing to do with historical accuracy.

Again, no one minds Dwarves and Hobbits given a mission by a disguised Oni tricked into fighting a gorgon in Waterdeep.

But Waterdeep also isn’t a pastiche of any real world culture, nor is it mixing obvious pastiches into a meaningless hodgepodge with no attempt to build a genuinely new world.

I don’t understand what is so hard to see about the difference.
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
Imagine if for a moment we all agree that the Oriental Adventures book should go the way of the dodo. Now imagine an elaborate campaign setting based entirely on Korean folklore, mythology and focused through a mytho-historical lens. Or imagine a fantasy setting that is based entirely on contemporary Chinese interests in how to interpret the fantastical (which is often centered on historical recreation with an emphasis on the reality of the mythic elements).

We have a lot of range here to create highly nuanced and very focused settings that draw from very specific cultures and histories. I think everyone would benefit from this.

Yeah, everyone, but the publisher who makes it... Imagine how many copies of Oriental Adventures WotC would sell and how many of a specific Korean based setting of the same size... Yeah, that's why generic books sell much better, a larger audience. Remember that WotC worked on a Wuxia book? They had to give it away and it still didn't reach as large an audience as OA... How many high volume Asian based RPGs and or settings are there, not many. One is L5R and that is a well loved target of the people that wield the 'orientalism' katana.... Most are either a single book or a very small range of low volume items.
 


S

Sunseeker

Guest
The rest of us are trying to have a completely different discussion, that in no way assumes any sort of historical accuracy.

Maybe we should refer to it as "verisimilitude". I'm curious how many people want granular role-playing rules for medieval knights give two slots about how much "verisimilitude" is in their non-Western games.

Which kinda demonstrates the problem.
 

Yeah, everyone, but the publisher who makes it... Imagine how many copies of Oriental Adventures WotC would sell and how many of a specific Korean based setting of the same size... Yeah, that's why generic books sell much better, a larger audience. Remember that WotC worked on a Wuxia book? They had to give it away and it still didn't reach as large an audience as OA... How many high volume Asian based RPGs and or settings are there, not many. One is L5R and that is a well loved target of the people that wield the 'orientalism' katana.... Most are either a single book or a very small range of low volume items.

Welcome to RPG publishing in the modern era. I'm not sure if you're arguing a point (which we all agree on) or think it's relevant, but yeah, I happen to thing that the cottage industry of indie, OSR and small press would handle this quite well, and even relish it. So I agree, except I think that's a good thing and your post reads like you might not think so. But if such a sourcebook came up from a 3PP on rpgnow or dmsguild.com, I think it would be well received by those interested in it.

Nothing in my prior post was arguing anything about profitability for WotC. We're way past that right now; WotC provides the core experience, and the rest of us provide the nuanced expression of personal tastes we all want to divulge in or share. That is literally our hobby these days, and that's totally fine.
 

stargazera5

Explorer
There is a difference between "merging cultures as they mesh over time" and "deliberately destroying cultures in order to exploit their people and their resources".

Please. There is a solid argument that my Irish ancestors were intentionally starved out of their lands by the British. But guess what, I'm friends and co-workers with British today and consider the UK one of the US's best and most important allies. Why, because it happened so many generations ago that it is irrelevant to today.

But if you really want to go on about "deliberately destroying cultures in order to exploit their people and their resources" we could talk about the 'Oriental' Mongol hordes that swept across Asia and into Eastern Europe for a bit of pillage, rape, and looting. Or the Persians of Asia-Minor. Or maybe discuss the Islamic Caliphates that sought to invade Europe and convert the populous by the sword (kind of a a cultural change there) only to be stopped at the Gates of Vienna and the Spanish Reconquista. The point is that many peoples have destroyed cultures. exploited people, and their resources. Focusing on colonialism, or even what the West has done, is ignoring 90% of world history, and in many cases far worse actions. In the end though, history is just that, history. Focusing too much on the past and the crimes of the past is narrow minded and ultimately results in keeping wounds open rather than healing them.
 

Skepticultist

Banned
Banned
I agree that a direct 1:1 comparison was not apt, but to deny that Asians have been exploited by colonial powers is to ignore history. This is especially true when you consider the ways in which Asian-Americans were exploited and dehumanized here in the U.S, between the Age of Railroads and Chinese Exclusion Act and Japanese Internment. And yes, there is difference between Asian-Americans and the history of Asians in Asia. But they share a history and a culture, and it's that history and culture that are being exploited and mangled, primarily in the U.S., by such products as "Oriental Adventures"

This is just white guilt handwringing. It's utterly irrelevant. You're just using accusatory language -- "exploited and mangled" -- to make it sound like the authors of "Oriental Adventures" are guilty of some crime, but that's total nonsense.

Look, this is all pure virtue-signalling. It's lazy slacktivism. There are real problems in the world, and if you want to address them, go ahead. But this is not a real problem. This is some :):):):):):):):) nonsense that you can inflate into a problem, then pretend you are addressing the problem by whinging pointlessly on the internet.

But you know what? This isn't going to make the world a better place. It isn't going to achieve anything. It's just a way for you to strike a self-righteous pose, hold your nose up in the air and delude yourself into thinking you're morally superior...because you've turned Asians into the pathetic wretches of history, poor perpetual victims.

Completely inappropriate, and breaking several rules all in one go. Using coded insulting terms like "virtue signalling", profanity, general name calling. Don't post in this thread again, please. - Morrus
 
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