ZEITGEIST Vekeshi Excoriant prestige class

Andrew Moreton · Apr 13, 2018

I completely agree none combat utility is important however there are a fair number of potentially lethal fights. Any rogue should be a skill monkey human rogue gives 9 or 10 skill points per level which should allow good stealth, acrobatics, sense motive, perception, umd, disable device, and some ability in Bluff, Diplomacy and or intimidate, know local and for a vekeshi probably Know Nature to cover the Fey.

My own group has ended up with one social specialist and 3 pc's who dumped cha they also have an npc rogue who has some competence at social skills, this has worked so far but we are only in book 2. Partially this may be because all of the players had high cha characters in the last campaign

Scout remains a good archetype but charge negates both vital strike and TWF , I find that the main source of sneak attack is flanking and you have a druid and a barbarian who will provide melee and maybe summoned creatures for flanking. A rogue should except for some weird builds using elven branched spears or curve blades should never use a 2- handed weapon as that style is built around the strength and power attack modifiers which rogues rarely have

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 14, 2018

Well, i actually change my mind and think I'm not gonna use guns anymore, as I realized that probably I can do the same with a straight rogue and daggers. I actually was thinking a knife master scout (both archetype) with feinting or debuffer with intimidate. The builds i thought start from this:

1) TWF + Weapon focus (daggers) + skill focus (acrob?)
2)
3) improved initiative
4) slow reactions
5) Opening volley
6) offensive defense + bonus talent (1/6 talent point for lv) combat expertise
7)two weapon feint (or its better just improved feint? In the practice, for a TWF, looks very similar, I dont get the difference maybe, except one is prereq for greater feint)
8) combat trick: ITWF
9) ITWfeint (or greater feint)
10) entanglements of blades
11) whatever
12) crippling strike

The idea is done throw daggers in the first round, charge with +6, than I can feint, charge someone else, or move for throw again and get my +6 back. Soon im gonnaa post also the debuffer, thanks really for your help and I'm sorry for change my mind but it's too much complicated to play with guns for me.

Andrew Moreton · Apr 14, 2018

Happy to help, I enjoy character optimisation, If I did not I would not offer to help, and all optimisation has to be done around the concept so if you wanted guns I optimise around guns if you don't want guns I don't.

If you are using knives and similar weapons Knifemaster is great because it boosts sneak attack ,less good if you want to use other weapons as well. I would not build around throwing weapons in the long term because you need magic weapons at higher level and you can't afford enough magical throwing weapons for them to be any good, it does work at lower level.

Your best debuff method is sneak attack after 4th level you give an attack, armour or movement penalty with each sneak attack for free which is great consider the Pressure points, Bleeding attack and crippling strike rogue talants all of them add unpleasent debuffs to your sneak attacks
I would go something like
1) Two weapon fighting-- Human Combat expertise
2) RT Weapon training for Weapon Focus
3) Two Weapon feint
4)RT Minor magical talant -Mage hand or prestigitation
5) Double Slice Rogues Edge Acrobatics
6)TWO Rogue talants one from the1/6th level favored class bonus Certainty -- Acrobatics a reroll can be a lifesaver here. Bonus Feat Skill focus Bluff Your charisma is fairly low so the bonus here will help with feint a lot
7 Two weapon defense
8 RT Combat trick Improved two weapon fighting
9 Improved two weapon feint
10 RT Crippling strike

After that really its up to you rogue talants like Opportunist and Hide in Plain sight or Major magic (Vanish) feats like Improved Critical

I could not tolerate your GM! It took me ages to find decent feat/talant picks which are on his pitifully small allowed list there are many . many more interesting feats and talants available particularly talants. I would have produced a better character in less time with more options

Adb0782 · Apr 14, 2018

Ok thanks, as race traits should i choose the skill unlock? acrobatics or bluff?. I just dont understand why minor magic: mage hand or prestidigitation. Its only for vanish later? Bcs yea charge and TWF dnt match a lot, maybe better save uncanny dodge, but TWfeinting will work in the same way till lv 8 i think, so i thought scout could be a second option to easy sneak attack, but now i think im gonna get uncanny dodge and use just the knifemaster archetype so slow reaction its less important (als bcs of skill edge), but if i wanna change that minot magic what can i put (is that vanish so important?)? For the debuffer i was thinking something with dizzling display and shatter defense, without the feinting, but it's probably stronger with a rake scout with a level of fighter. I like both concept, i just don't know which can be better to play.

ps i actually don't get whats the difference for a TWF to get TWfeinting or improved feinting. It gonna work in the same way for a TWF isnt it? What im missing?

PPS i was considering a lot the EBS bcs i really like the idea of reach weapons from second line with gang up and have lots of aoo and trips, but i think its banned as i cant find the EBS on that books lol and i should anyway use a talent for be proficient in that weapon as i cant change my race, so probably not so worth it.

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 16, 2018

I thought to put surprise attack (or improved initiat) and underhanded (at medium lv I think it's already kinda strong) instead than minor magic (and I don't know what else take out), of course using knife master/bandit archetype. Or maybe ninja trick: pressure point instead than minor magic, using just knife master archetype. What u think? I just don't see the minor magic use, vanish it's great for major magic, but is that so necessary? Or I can get other similar talent from lv 11 that don't have minor magic as prereq?

Adb0782 · Apr 16, 2018

well i decided for the feinting one. instead of minior magic ill get bleeding attack or pressure poits and with the knife master archetype. Really thanks for your help and time.

Andrew Moreton · Apr 16, 2018

Glad to be of help. I had a rush of paperwork to take care of over the last few days good luck and have fun solving the mysteries of the campaign, I and my players are enjoying it