ZEITGEIST Vekeshi Excoriant prestige class

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 4, 2018

Andrew Moreton said:
Opening Volley is not a particularly good feat, the +4 to hit is nice but it requires that you be in position to shoot and then close to melee in the next round, so it is useful in less than half of all combat rounds , you will often prefer to spend multiple turns shooting or be spending multiple turns in melee so it is hard to use. One of my players took it in a different campaign and found she almost never used it as the situation to use it became complex.

Improved two weapon fighting is probably more useful as it gives an extra attack on a full attack. You have a better attack bonus than most rogues by a small amount due to gunslinger levels and you should be trying to make attacks against flat footed or flanked opponents which helps your to hit chance and your guns target touch ac which is often quite low depending on the opponent.

Ah I see, I didn't think about it bcs I thought that as a scout I could shot, hit and than charge in the next turn at double speed (that i thought sufficient for get in malee mostly of times) getting +6 for hit and being sure about sneak attack even without flanking or having enemies flat footed for the scout archetype that sneak attack always when charging and later even when just move more than few ft. But if u say me it not gonna work well like this than better improved two weapon fighting even with - 5 to hit.

Ps yea I calculate that from the 9 lv I get a +1 BAB if compare with a straight rogue, but i don't have weapon focus on malee weapons so it should be the same than a straight rogue for hit with sneak attack, if u say me that's sufficient for hit kinda often than probably opening volley (or a lv in barbarian, that boost also my speed, or alchemist as both boost anyway the hit dice with rage/mutagen) is kinda useless, i just dont know if it is sufficient for don't be all time shooting and trying too many attacks before hit.

Andrew Moreton · Apr 4, 2018

It can work as you describe, but that relies on the tactical situation being suitable. The character who had the feat in my previous game had a similar plan, but often she would start outside practical pistol range (you need to be fairly close to target touch ac) and then charge in without firing preliminary shots particularly at higher levels where haste of often in use. Or the enemy would charge her before she could shoot and charge in , so in practice she was frequently unable to fight as planned. Although as a Paladin her accuracy in HTH combat was higher than yours. It is not a bad feat it is just that you cannot always control when you use it

For accuracy you are not much less accurate than a fighter or Barbarian , until the gap opens up at high levels. This is why I like being able to feint as a rogue because it reduces the enemies AC and sets them up for sneak attack. Your ranged attacks will not have a big accuaracy problem most of the time as you target touch AC and a lot of high level opponents have low touch AC. Incorporeal undead and monks are your worst enemies as they tend to have good touch AC's

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 5, 2018

Btw I was thinking for this build I need to get a revolver or something with more shots? Bcs how can I shot many time in malee with snap shot + combat reflex if I have the shorsword in the other hand and so I can't reload?

Andrew Moreton · Apr 5, 2018

Everyone needs revolvers.
The availability of them is up to your GM. I in my campaign have decided that they are not easily available in Risur but are more common in Drakr and Danor , my players will be able to access them around level 5-6

Until revolvers are available you can use Double barrelled or Pepperbox pistols they are not as good but are pretty much certain to be available

The other solutions are means of getting a third hand (prehensile tail for example) and there is a magical item which reloads as a quick action with no hands which can keep your pistol loaded

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 6, 2018

A pepper box need a free hand to shot more than 1 bullet and that's not gonna happen if I start my fight in malee as u said you Me it's better. So probably it's better have 3/4 double barrelled pistol and when the bullet it's finish make it fall down and with quick draw get one more. Or how can I get a third hand?

Ps my gm confirmed me the advanced firearms is not available to buy, but the early one is common and we can find just for the 25% of the price. So just buy a lot of that should be sufficient with quick draw.

Andrew Moreton · Apr 6, 2018

I have not looked at Pepperbox pistols for years I recall a PC using two of them a long time ago but I have no idea how he was doing it, but it was long enough ago that whatever he was using would be valid in your campaign as it was about a decade ago so none of the banned stuff had been published, but because it was that long ago I cannot remember what he was doing.

Quickdrawing pistols works well as long as you don't have to retreat and leave all those dropped pistols behind. It does mean you may want to get magical ammo rather than magical weapons as you can use the ammo across multiple weapons.

The main way to get a 3rd hand is prehensile tail which means being a Kobold or Tiefling. The gunslinger pc in my Zeitgesit campaign is a Kobold but he also plans on using revolvers, the reloading rate is slow anyway so he only gets to fire 2 guns at the start of a fight or if there has been a pause for several rounds while he loads.
Alchemists can use the vestigal hand discovery,
Until reloading time is a free action neither method really increases your rate of fire

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 6, 2018

I'm Also thinking to use a similar build (without snap shot, precise shot and sword and pistol) with the musketeer and use opening volley more often. I give up about aoo but I get more range, load with a free action, and more easy charge for sneak attack. What u think about? Bcs the archetype of musketeer looks much more good than pistolero as snap shot only give me the chance to Aoo in the squares near me, so same a sword.

Antonio Di Benedetto · Apr 6, 2018

Also use gauntlet as second weapon (and the chain shield gauntlet attack and shield gauntlet master, considering the damage like a sacred weapon of the war priest - 4) can be a way for fast reload...but probably as rogue I can't use buckler.

Adb0782 · Apr 6, 2018

I have now this 2 choices:

1) Unchained Rogue (scout): TWF (human bonus talent),
Quick draw
2) pistolero:
3) Unchained rogue: rogue talent: weapon training (pistol) + point blank shot
4) Unchained Rogue
5) pistolero: rapid shot
6)rogue talent: combat trick: combat reflex
7) pistolero: snap shop
8) unchained rogue
9) pistolero: precise shot + bonus feat: sword and pistol
10) unchained rogue: rogue talent: combat trick: deadly aim
11) pistolero: improved snap shot
12) unchained rogue: rogue talent: double slice
13) Unchained rogue: improved two weapon fighting
14) Unchained Rogue: rogue talent: two weapon rend
15) UR: Rogue: improved critic (pistol)
16) UR: Offensive defense

VS

1) UR (scout): TWF, quick draw
2) Musketeer, fast reload
3) UR: rogue talent: weapon training + point blank shot
4) UR
5) Musketeer: opening volley
6) UR: rogue Talent: combat trick: Rapid shot
7) Musketeer combat reflex
8) UR
9) Musketter: Improved TWF + bonus talent: deadly aim
10) UR: (i dont know the name of the rogue talet that makes him be invisible even if someone is watching him)
11) Musketter: precise shot
12) UR: clustered shot
13) Two weapon rend
14) improved crit (muskeet)

Which u think can be stronger?

Andrew Moreton · Apr 7, 2018

I would go with the pistols , using a long range weapon does not fit well with a rogue you will rarely get sneak attack with the long range shots . You have to be close to use sneak attack and that will lead to hand to hand combat which gets rid of the advantage of the long range musket. You need really to decide on one thing to do in combat, either short range with the pistols to give some flexibility or long range, if you favor long range there are better classes than Rogue to combine with Gunslinger Alchemist with the explosive missile discovery or the Gun alchemist archetype (which will be banned as it is useful and recent trades bombs for alchemical bullets same I don't find it any more powerful than the normal alchemist), spellslinger wizard and eldritch knight also works or even fighter.

The extra feats to use gauntlet will be hard to fit in so melee weapons are easier.

ZEITGEIST Vekeshi Excoriant prestige class

Antonio Di Benedetto

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Andrew Moreton

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Antonio Di Benedetto

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Andrew Moreton

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Antonio Di Benedetto

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Andrew Moreton

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Antonio Di Benedetto

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Antonio Di Benedetto

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Adb0782

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Andrew Moreton

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