The Goblin - Pathfinder 2's Newest Ancestry!

Today's Pathfinder 2nd Edition update is all about the Goblin! Paizo introduces the first (and the newest) of the game's Ancestries. As always, this information will be added to the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compiled Info Page!



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  • Goblins! Last night Paizo revealed the first of the Ancestries - the Goblin!
    • Boosts to Dexterity and Charisma plus one other ability score of your choice
    • Flaw to Wisdom
    • 6 hit points
    • Speed 25'
    • Common and Goblin starting language
    • Darvision (see in the dark as though it were daylight)
    • Sample Ancestry feats --
      • Burn It -- bonus damage on fire spells or alchemical items, and increases persistent fire damage by 1 points.
      • Junk Tinkerer -- craft ordinary, poor quality items out of junk.
      • Razor Teeth -- 1d6 piercing damage.
      • Very Sneaky -- move additional 5' when taking the sneak action (normally half speed) and possibly render target flat-footed.
  • Jason Bulmahn on including Goblins -- "Concerning goblins and how they fit in Golarion: Times change and so do people's opinions. Goblins as PCs have been a part of our world since the first "We Be Goblins" adventure. Many of the comments here echo those from back during the launch of 3.0 when Half-Orcs returned to the game as a player choice. There was a lot of conflict at first, but the tone of them shifted over time. We always knew this would be a bit controversial and that there were some who would loudly proclaim "not at my table" and I get that. It's your table and your game after all. We are moving forward, trying to allow players to explore these characters, their culture, and their viewpoint. We are hoping to give you plenty of reasons, both mechanically and story-driven, to allow goblins in your game."
  • Mark Seifter on that flexible ability boost -- "It's one of ways you get to really customize your ancestry to fit your character concept, melding the story and life of your character to the mechanics. Plus you can play the class you want without worrying about as much of an uphill battle with ability scores if you don't match the bonuses from the race with the class you had it mind. Incidentally, it provides a really nice design space to much more easily create and handle subraces that have different ability modifiers... ;)"
  • Mark Seifter confirms that repairing an item is a untrained use but building is trained only.
  • Seifter on failed saves vs. dominate -- "the wording is subtly different now. Anyway, because it implies what you've said here, I wouldn't say "if you critically fail your save against dominate, you are completely under the spellcaster's control". There is still some possibility to resist a particularly abhorrent new order on a critical failure, but you're going to have to fulfill that first command no matter what."
  • Community News --
 

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Aldarc

Legend
The original Paizo Playtest release says goblins " tend to flock to strong leaders" which would seem to imply that they are followers not leaders (ie low charisma).

that they have "inscrutable quirkiness, love of puns" ie nobody gets their humor and they enjoy puns (aka the lowest form of humor) somehow this qualifies them for an ancestral charisma bonus
That's not actually true. Or rather it's 18th century snobbery directed at puns that has since somehow become regarded as "truth." Samuel Johnson, to whom the quote is often attributed, hated puns (among others of his contemporaries), but I highly doubt most would regard Samuel Johnson (one of the 'fathers' of the English Dictionary) as the hallmark of humor, much less be able to discuss anything humorful he wrote off the top of their head. But if you look back at many writers before that time, puns were all the rage and regarded as a form of cleverness. They were beloved by many Greek playwrights and philosophers. Shakespeare is loaded with puns. Many of his plays may have been for the masses, but puns were nevertheless highly regarded in a lot of pre-18th century literature.
 

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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Personally, I love puns that make use of actual homonyms, homophones, and homographs. I hate puns that try to cheat and just use alliteration, rhyme, or worse yet, words that just sound vaguely similar.

“Time flies like the wind and fruit flies like bananas” is clever wordplay. Calling a joke “punny” instead of “funny” is lazy.
 
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snickersnax

Explorer
That's not actually true. Or rather it's 18th century snobbery directed at puns that has since somehow become regarded as "truth." Samuel Johnson, to whom the quote is often attributed, hated puns (among others of his contemporaries), but I highly doubt most would regard Samuel Johnson (one of the 'fathers' of the English Dictionary) as the hallmark of humor, much less be able to discuss anything humorful he wrote off the top of their head. But if you look back at many writers before that time, puns were all the rage and regarded as a form of cleverness. They were beloved by many Greek playwrights and philosophers. Shakespeare is loaded with puns. Many of his plays may have been for the masses, but puns were nevertheless highly regarded in a lot of pre-18th century literature.

When someone goes on a pun rampage what's the more common response?

a) people groan and beg for them to stop

b) people clap, ask for more and shower the punster with love and respect.


Do you notice that respected, charismatic people engage in puns as a habit or is it more likely to be seen at a table full of social outcasts playing D&D?
 
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snickersnax

Explorer
Are you advocating for pun control?

From a previous Paizo post about rogues and puns:

"Are you plagued by a friend and coworker who peppers his blogs with puns and ridiculous word plays, often dessert-based? Does it bother you so much that you fantasize about stabbing him in the back, but federal and local statutes (along with those pesky pangs of morality) stop you?"...

Hard to believe that a few days later they are advocating puns as a reason for giving goblins a charisma bonus. WUT?
 


Obryn

Hero
Hmmm, yes, I will definitely spend a permanent character resource to acquire the equivalent of a non-magical shortsword, absolutely that is a reasonable way to spend a feat.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Hmmm, yes, I will definitely spend a permanent character resource to acquire the equivalent of a non-magical shortsword, absolutely that is a reasonable way to spend a feat.
The bite attack? Yeah, natural weapon class features are always useless but at least they don’t usually come at an opportunity cost. I predict that bite attack never being taken by anyone.
 

Kaodi

Hero
"There is no reason a goblin should have a charisma bonus," they said of a race popular enough to be the companies mascot, be included in four adventures, and make it into the next edition of the rules as a core race.

No one would bat an eye if there was a race called "manic pixie" that got a charisma bonus. Goblins are evil manic pixies.
 

Arakasius

First Post
Bite attacks were quite powerful in PF1, because even as a weapon user you could use them at -5 as part of a full attack option. Considering static bonuses were so high there that was a considerable source of damage. In the new PF2 world where an action is an action I would guess a bite attack would be less useful. Perhaps they automatically count as agile weapons? That would allow the old swing/swing/bite mechanism as before. I think its a little early to rule out natural attacks considering they were quite powerful in PF1.
 

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