The "Superstitious Mumbo Jumbo" Of Dice Rolling

There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?
There's a lot of "superstitious mumbo jumbo" (to quote Sir Alec Guiness about The Force in Star Wars') in the world. I take the scientific, naturalistic approach. I don't accept the supernatural as an explanation for anything, so why would I think there can be anything magical or supernatural in dice rolling/games?

Photo by Alex Chambers on Unsplash

"You can blow on the dice all you want, but whether they come up 'seven' is still a function of random luck." Barry Ritholtz

How many times do you hear someone say "I'm a bad dice roller," or occasionally, "I'm a good dice roller." This is pure hooey of course: probability governs dice rolling, personal characteristics have nothing to do with it. (Though a few people can consciously control dice when they throw them, which is why you have to throw off a cushion-wall in a casino.) Rather, most people don't understand probability, and some choose poorly about when to rely on the dice, which gives the appearance that there are bad dice rollers or good dice rollers.

Take Dungeons & Dragons for example, or other similar role-playing games. The objective in the game (for most) is to survive, then prosper. Good strategy and tactics in the game is to limit the number of times you have to rely on the dice to bail you out of trouble, and good players do that, while poor players rely on the dice a lot. So of course bad things happen to them following dice rolls. They may get the impression that they are "bad dice rollers", but what they actually are is bad tacticians, or simply unwise. ("He chose . . . poorly" (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade).)

Let's say there's a chance that you can try periodically in a game to acquire additional assets, but it comes with a risk. One player takes a chance with one sixth likelihood of failure three times; and he/she fails once. Another takes a much worse chance, say a one third chance of failure, and tries six times. They fail twice. The first has failed a little more than average, but only once; the second has failed twice, average, but blames the dice for their greater failure rate (two times instead of one). In reality they only have themselves to blame for relying on the dice, but they turn this into "I've rolled badly." Duh!

If you don't know that there's no such thing as a bad dice roller or a good dice roller, then you probably shouldn't be a game designer, because you won't have a clue about probability. If you want to play games by depending on the dice, more power to you, but you have to understand simple probabilities to design games.

This doesn't stop you from having fun when you play; it doesn't prevent me from "casting spells" with ridiculous magic words (e.g. popocatépetl or ixtaccihuatl) to help someone else playing a game roll well, even though we all know it's ridiculous. It doesn't stop me from advising people to change hands when the rolls aren't going their way. Superstition is common in general, but we all know, or we should know, and I'll occasionally say it even as I indulge in it, this is all BS.

So get a grip on reality: dice are dice, random unless they're weighted unfairly of course, or unless you have a 20 sided die with two 20s and no 1's. (I've got one of those as a lark.) It has to be said though, most commercial hobby dice are likely to have a small bias, the production is just too cheap for anything else. So if someone has a "lucky die," maybe it really is skewed - but then it should be lucky for anyone not just for the owner. Maybe that's why, when somebody owns a "lucky die", they often won't let anybody else roll it.

Reference: "Probability for Game Designers" by James Ernest (Cheap-Ass Games).

contributed by Lewis Pulsipher
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

Kobold Boots

Banned
Banned
Side note: Because I've learned my lesson about editing as least as far as this thread goes.

Everyone on this forum has their experiences, race, culture and upbringing to help define them and be whatever they are in their lives. When posting on the Internet, on a forum where we're all posting in black and white text with blue graphics; we all start the same.

We only bring the silliness here if we choose to. Which is what annoys me most about doing it I suppose.
 

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hI would also point out that rolling several times while the DM is distracted and choosing successful rolls is not necessarily "good tactics", but seems common amongst the old-schoolers I know. (With the exception of the purists who would have some kind of psychic infarction if forced to do such a thing.)

I believe the common term for this is being a "dirty, dirty cheater".
 

We're all trapped in this universe together with no way of seeing before/outside it or knowing how many turtles its on the back of. We're also doomed to affect the observable by observing it. I'm personally fine with superstitions as long as no one is harmed.

I prefer Spock's take on things that don't line up with his logic. He doesn't belittle or correct, he doesn't smack his head in frustration. He finds the person "fascinating".
 

I am a middle-school science teacher, and run an after-school D&D club. One of my 7th-graders is filled with very wrong ideas about how D&D works, including crazy dice superstitions. And because his dad filled his head with nonsense, nothing I say can change the kid's mind. The one I remember is that he is convinced Magic "spin-down" d20s are superior to standard d20s and roll higher because they are larger in size. *forehead smack*

If you hold the spin-down dice a certain way and roll them a certain way I'm sure you'd be able to get pretty decent success at rolling well with them, as all the high numbers are concentrated on a certain area on the die.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
No, you really don't have to ask. You just need to look at how the words were used in context and not get yourself in a bunch over it unless it's appropriate to do so.

The words themselves were not called "ridiculous", the use in context of magic was.

Be well
KB

That's not my read of it. I think you're trying to rationalize the problem away by brushing it off. I think the OP just picked words that look/sound weird to him, and presumably, his expected readers. And by doing so, he fell right into a problem that a lot of people have coming from a dominating culture. He picked foreign words - not nonsense words, foreign words - that sound and look weird to English-speakers regardless of the fact that they are perfectly normal to the people who speak the source language. It is insensitive and, while probably not intended to be overtly racist, comes out of racist relationships between white Anglo-cultures and virtually everyone else.
 

As much as I believe that dice rolls are random and independent of each other, I have also gamed with a guy for over a decade now that seems to roll worse than everyone else. Maybe it's just confirmation bias that we take note of his bad rolls, more so than his good rolls, but it really feels like his average d20 roll would be less than the 10.5 mean that he should be rolling over a statistically significantly number of rolls. It really is funny to watch some times.

The best part is that he's just taken over DM duties again, so the players currently get to benefit from his inability to roll average dice! :D
 


aramis erak

Legend
As much as I believe that dice rolls are random and independent of each other, I have also gamed with a guy for over a decade now that seems to roll worse than everyone else. Maybe it's just confirmation bias that we take note of his bad rolls, more so than his good rolls, but it really feels like his average d20 roll would be less than the 10.5 mean that he should be rolling over a statistically significantly number of rolls. It really is funny to watch some times.

The best part is that he's just taken over DM duties again, so the players currently get to benefit from his inability to roll average dice! :D

It's quite possible that the "bad luck" is them subconsciously releasing when a bad face is up.

That said, most of the players I've seen have rotten luck on just 1d_ rolls tend to not have same with 4d_ or larger pools.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
dice are dice, random unless they're weighted unfairly of course
In principle I agree, however, I'm quite convinced that a very high number of dice are in fact weighted as a consequence of poor production quality.

As anecdotal evidence I'd like to mention that my favorite D20 (it came with the 1st edition basic set of 'Das Schwarze Auge') apparently came up with high double digit numbers, especially the '19' a lot. After several years of use, a flaw showed up on the '19' side, eventually widening into a crack until the face broke open and you could see that there was a hollow space below it - an air bubble!
It also didn't have the 'normal' distribution of numbers on its sides. While it wasn't an actual spin die, the '19' was surrounded by several high numbers.

If a die is rolled very often, even a small bias will eventually become noticeable. So, this isn't always mere superstition. A player's 'lucky' die is in all likelihood a die with a favorable production flaw.
 

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