Any RPG systems have good Firearms rules and feel ?

Rashak Mani · Sep 17, 2003

I am playing Fallout Tactics game and I really wish to roleplay some game with similar "feel". Still my impression is that d20 is woefully inadequate for firearm games and feel. Am I wrong ?

What game do you think has the best old or modern firearms rules and feeling ? Give a hint at why.

Psion · Sep 17, 2003

Give a hint at why you think d20 (or all variations thereof) is inadequate? It's sort of hard to know what you are going for.

Zulithe · Sep 17, 2003

D20 Modern. The basic firearm rules in the D&D DMG should be enough with a little creativity, or you could buy D20 Modern, pick & choose some of the goodies and add them to your D&D campaign.

My upcoming campaign has somewhat of a Western feel to it. The only problem I'm having is finding a "gunslinger" type of class that I'm satisfied with. So far, the ones I've seen here and at the WotC forums haven't been to my liking. Probably I'll whip up one of my own.

Tsyr · Sep 17, 2003

Shadowrun. For oh so many reasons.

Psion · Sep 17, 2003

Zulithe said:
D20 Modern.

I think I would have to agree that d20 modern's firearms rules aren't stellar. Lowered MDT helps, but the breakpoint is such that some firearms aren't as lethal as they really are (which, depending on who you are, might not be a problem.) More importantly, the autofire rules for d20 Modern have a lot of conceptual problems with them, like totally ignoring armor. At any rate, more of these points can be had by examining the d20 modern forum.

S'mon · Sep 17, 2003

The best firearms system I know was the one used in 2nd ed Twilight 2000 (and to a lesser extent in Traveller: The New Era). It did 2 important things:

1. It took account of weapon recoil. Bigger isn't always better.

2. It treated autofire realistically as a 'spray' effect rather than the 'full auto sniper' effect of most systems, each bullet was rolled for individually, but in T2000 each simply hit on a '6' on a d6. Cover, range and recoil led to a certain number of automatic misses, reducing the number of d6s rolled. For point-blank fire you could rule bullets hit on a 4+ or 5+ on d6.
I found this to be an excellent system that produced much more realistic results than other systems, I used it successfully in my AD&D/Cyberpunk crossover game.

Cedric · Sep 17, 2003

I could be totally misremembering, haven't played in awhile...but I think GURPS is pretty good.

buzzard · Sep 17, 2003

Spycraft has decent firearms rules within the constraints inherent to D20. They have spent a fair amount of effort of trying to get their gun data right. They also have a fair number of combat options which give a cinematic gun feel. Their full auto rules are OK.

With their use of wounds/vitality, lethality is achieved on criticals . The damage dice for most reasonable calibers can kill on a single shot to wounds.

The failing point, which is inherent to D20 is the lack of shot placement, and by virtue of this, unrealistic body armor. However to add such things would introduce a large amount of complication. All in all Spycraft seems to handle things reasonably well within the constrains of the basic system.

buzzard

shouit · Sep 17, 2003

I would have to say Cyberpunk, took recoil into effect. Did a good job with auto fire and was simple. What more could you ask for?

Psion · Sep 17, 2003

Cedric said:
I could be totally misremembering, haven't played in awhile...but I think GURPS is pretty good.

GURPS has some nice points if you are looking for gritty deadly, but I think it totally overestimates the effectiveness of firearms as compared to other deadly implements. Someting like 7d damage for modern firearms where a greatsword does like 2d. I would agree firearms have greater penetration and damage, but that many more dice and that much more of a chance of killing an urarmored target? I don't think so.