The final word on DPR, feats and class balance


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At level 11, without feat a dragon sorcerer deals 3d10 +5 damage with fire bolt. Avg 21.5.
A fighter with great sword deals 6d6 + 15 + Fighting style for avg of 39.

Twinning fire bolt is not really efficient to get down monster. You’re still doing only 21.5 on the primary target.
If you want to be really efficient you need to use quicken, for double cost of sorcery point.
And still you’re only dealing 4 more points of damage than the fighter, and spending sorcery point like hell.
If the fighter use manoeuver or action surge he can make burst that outshine you.

A sorcerer 11 has 10 + 47 available sorcery points per day.
28 quicken spells. Enough to fuel 5 or 6 encounters.
Spending all its magic to be just a bit more efficient than the fighter,
Is the dragon sorcerer really broken?
 
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5ekyu

Hero
It's just an illustration of the logical fallacy of appealing to tradition or common practice. It's not that always playing the same imbalanced game the same unfair way is necessarily injurious to all or even some involved, let alone ethically bankrupt or morally repugnant, it's merely not proof that the game is already perfect.

So you felt the need to make a post to disprove the game as already perfect? Who made such a claim?

Did anyone in this thread?
 

5ekyu

Hero
I have a college buddy I visit in Texas every year, and we always play a couple of chess games; it's become a tradition. We're pretty well matched.

Sometimes I think about going out and improving my chess game. I'm sure that I could get significantly better with just a moderate amount of study. But then those games wouldn't be well matched any more, and I'd have lessened my enjoyment of them for the sake of building up a skill that benefits me not at all.

Sometimes there is value in *not* getting better.

as an aside since go was mentioned earlier - go includes komi to offset the first move advantage - varies by rules - and also mebraces fairly well a decent handicapping system that enables players of different strengths to play and both be challenged - within certain extremes.
 

A more problematic case is the sorcerer 9 / warlock 2.
With eldritch blast + agonizing blast + hex + quicken spell
He got
6d10 + 6d6 + 30 for avg 84.
25 times per day.
 

An honorable mention is the Paladin 6 / sorcerer 5 who can use
Two attack with great sword 2d6 + 10 avg 26
+ enough smite to fuel one big combats, and one honest combat.
5d8 4 Times
4d8 3 Times
3d8 3 Times
2d8 4 Times.
The best smiting round can be
26 + 10d8 for 61 and you can add +7 if he use hunter mark. 68.
This is still under the fighter with action surge who can deals 39 x 2 for 78.

This Paladin is better with short adventure day, otherwise he get tired soon.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
An honorable mention is the Paladin 6 / sorcerer 5 who can use
Two attack with great sword 2d6 + 10 avg 26
+ enough smite to fuel one big combats, and one honest combat.
5d8 4 Times
4d8 3 Times
3d8 3 Times
2d8 4 Times.
The best smiting round can be
26 + 10d8 for 61 and you can add +7 if he use hunter mark. 68.
This is still under the fighter with action surge who can deals 39 x 2 for 78.

This Paladin is better with short adventure day, otherwise he get tired soon.

Takes a while to get going the Sorlock is decent from level 3 or so.
 

So the optimization control can be:
Nerf SS and GWM by changing the -5/+10 with +1 str or dex.
Tie eldritch blast multi beam to warlock level.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Note the Op is one of the hardcore 4E fans hence why he is basically trolling.


I already gave one warning to not make it personal in this thread. "He likes something I don't like, so he's a troll," is not an acceptable approach on these boards. If you cannot have a discussion about a topic while treating the people in it with respect, you should not be in the discussion.

So, the question you want to ask yourself is whether you can moderate yourself, or are we going to have to remove you from the thread.

This goes for everyone - two warnings to the thread is sufficient. Expect the next violation of civility to earn you a quick trip out of the discussion without warning.
 

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