Pathfinder 2's Sorcerer Goes "All In" On Bloodlines

MoonSong · Jul 10, 2018

houser2112 said:
This is disappointing. Wizards have no such restriction on how many spells per day they can heighten, do they? First Paizo fails to kill off paleovancian casting, and then they nerf the class that is supposed to be our refuge from it. Blah.

No, no, this isn't two heightens per day. It's two of your spells can be heightened as many times as you want each day for free, without needing a feat. Wizards prepare every spell in advance down to the slot level and they are stuck with it, sorcerers just don't need to care. And if two free heightens is too little, you can always take the feat.

houser2112 · Jul 10, 2018

Superchunk77 said:
I believe their ability is in addition to the normal rules for heightening spells via the feat.

You need a feat to heighten? I have really missed a lot then. My recollection of the Wizard post made it seem like something that was part of the system (like 5E).

Charlaquin · Jul 10, 2018

houser2112 said:
You need a feat to heighten? I have really missed a lot then. My recollection of the Wizard post made it seem like something that was part of the system (like 5E).

Heightening is part of the system. You normally heighten a spell by preparing it in a higher level spell slot. Sorcerers don’t prepare spells. Instead, they can learn higher level versions of spells (you’ll also be able to retrain your known spells at certain levels, so if you learn, say, 1st level heal early on, but later want to swap it out for 2nd level heal once you have 2nd level spell slots, you can.) They can also choose two spells per day, and for the rest of the day cast those two spells at any level. I’m not sure what the talk of Feats is all about. Maybe there’ll be a Feat Sorcerers can take to choose more spells to be able to spontaneously heighten in a day?

MoonSong · Jul 10, 2018

houser2112 said:
You need a feat to heighten? I have really missed a lot then. My recollection of the Wizard post made it seem like something that was part of the system (like 5E).

I haven't been too up to date with the previews and I don't remember the wizard preview -maybe missed it, maybe saw it but totally forgot about it-, but from what I got from this preview, it sounds like heighten spell is still a feat.

Charlaquin · Jul 10, 2018

MoonSong said:
I haven't been too up to date with the previews and I don't remember the wizard preview -maybe missed it, maybe saw it but totally forgot about it-, but from what I got from this preview, it sounds like heighten spell is still a feat.

Nah, heightening is just a thing any spellcaster can do now, by preparing a spell in a higher level slot. So, with Heal for example, it heals a living target or damages an undead target for 1d8+Mod at first level (or just straight Mod for the 3-Action AOE version.) If you prepare it in a higher level spell slot (known as “heightening” it), it does an extra 2d8 for each level above first (or just an extra 1d8 with the 3-Action version). Since Sorcerers don’t prepare spells, one who takes Heal at 1st level can’t exactly heighten it. If she wants to cast a 2nd level Heal, she has to learn it. Or, she can choose Heal as one of her two spells per day that she can spontaneously heighten, allowing her to cast Heal at any level she has slots for that day.

MoonSong · Jul 10, 2018

Charlaquin said:
Nah, heightening is just a thing any spellcaster can do now, by preparing a spell in a higher level slot. So, with Heal for example, it heals a living target or damages an undead target for 1d8+Mod at first level (or just straight Mod for the 3-Action AOE version.) If you prepare it in a higher level spell slot (known as “heightening” it), it does an extra 2d8 for each level above first (or just an extra 1d8 with the 3-Action version). Since Sorcerers don’t prepare spells, one who takes Heal at 1st level can’t exactly heighten it. If she wants to cast a 2nd level Heal, she has to learn it. Or, she can choose Heal as one of her two spells per day that she can spontaneously heighten, allowing her to cast Heal at any level she has slots for that day.

I'm really hoping sorcerers get a generous amount of spells known now...

houser2112 · Jul 10, 2018

Charlaquin said:
Heightening is part of the system. You normally heighten a spell by preparing it in a higher level spell slot. Sorcerers don’t prepare spells. Instead, they can learn higher level versions of spells (you’ll also be able to retrain your known spells at certain levels, so if you learn, say, 1st level heal early on, but later want to swap it out for 2nd level heal once you have 2nd level spell slots, you can.) They can also choose two spells per day, and for the rest of the day cast those two spells at any level. I’m not sure what the talk of Feats is all about. Maybe there’ll be a Feat Sorcerers can take to choose more spells to be able to spontaneously heighten in a day?

How... inelegant. If wizards can heighten just by preparing in a higher level slot, sorcerers should be able to heighten by spontaneously casting from a higher level slot. By forcing them to swap the lower level version to get the higher level version, they lose the ability to cast the lower. Throwing them the "2 free per day" bone is fiddliness that sorcerers don't want; if they did, they'd be wizards instead.

Charlaquin · Jul 10, 2018

houser2112 said:
How... inelegant. If wizards can heighten just by preparing in a higher level slot, sorcerers should be able to heighten by spontaneously casting from a higher level slot. By forcing them to swap the lower level version to get the higher level version, they lose the ability to cast the lower. Throwing them the "2 free per day" bone is fiddliness that sorcerers don't want; if they did, they'd be wizards instead.

To be fair, you don’t have to swap out a lower level version of a spell for a higher level version; you could just learn and keep both versions of you want to.

Yeah, it’s definitely inelegant. It would be nice if you could cast any spell you know at any level just by expending the appropriate level slot. But I could see that being too powerful when every other spellcaster has to prepare each individual spell by slot level.

MoonSong · Jul 10, 2018

Charlaquin said:
To be fair, you don’t have to swap out a lower level version of a spell for a higher level version; you could just learn and keep both versions of you want to.

Yeah, it’s definitely inelegant. It would be nice if you could cast any spell you know at any level just by expending the appropriate level slot. But I could see that being too powerful when every other spellcaster has to prepare each individual spell by slot level.

It all depends. As it is, it doesn't sound all that different from the Cure minor wounds, cure light wounds, cure moderate wounds... situation. It all comes to the ratio between two factors: 1) how many spells actually heighten in a meaningful way and 2) how many spells known the sorcerer has. The less of the former and the more of the latter the better, but if it is a lot of the former and not much of the latter, well, that is what playtest feedback is for.

Kaodi · Jul 11, 2018

I like this "a sorcerer for every spell type" business. I also like that we got another preview on a Wednesday? They have been Mondays and Fridays for the most part, have they not?

Now I really just want a Dragon preview. Give me those sweet sweet wyrm deets.