D&D 5E Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan Issues (SPOILERS)

Otterscrubber · Jul 28, 2018

Ok, so I get this is a classic old adventure but I found it rather dull and difficult to run. Bordering on pointless. Help me find what I'm missing. So you can enter in through the main temple up top, in which case you are exploring the dungeon in reverse order to the room numbers (which I usually understood to be the order the dungeon is likely to be explored) or you fall into a trap and start at the bottom and work your way up. Usually dungeons start in one area and then you work your way up to harder fights/traps culminating in some kind of final battle/puzzle that provides some kind of 'completion' to the quest or mission.

Yet in this one, it just seemed almost like a random collection of rooms that were oddly shaped or described making it hard to really give a sense of what's gong on. But more importantly, it just seems like a slog with no actual goal and random rewards scattered throughout. Just finished reading it and the last room is the top of the temple where the last fight is a single CR 1 Giant Hyena and some inconvenient rubble. Bit of a letdown. There was an Oni in there somewhere, but even he will stay in his room if given the chance according to the brief description given and the PCs basically have to go out of their way just to confront him, with no real reason given why they would even bother. Didn't really get what this dungeon is all about. Seemed like mostly annoying traps and no clear ....win? There is recurring mention of Zotziliaha, but no actual Zotziliaha in the dungeon? Or is this dungeon just supposed to be an educational dungeon about pain in the ass traps and the frustration of sitting through hours of your players being overly cautious making the completion of this dungeon take WAY longer than I feel it should? What obvious thing am I missing?

CapnZapp · Jul 28, 2018

Nothing.

Welcome to old-school dungeons.

pukunui · Jul 28, 2018

It was originally a tournament module, and the goal was to see how far you could get in the time allotted.

Ath-kethin · Jul 28, 2018

Geez Louise. Now we gotta have reasons for the looting and killing and destruction?

Kids these days.

DeanP · Jul 29, 2018

The original module was predicated on moving as quickly as possible and therein lay the risk and source of tension. If you moved quick, you risked setting off traps that could do you in; if you were overly cautious, you'd succumb to the poisonous gas. As somebody who began playing D&D with Basic and then Advanced D&D, I appreciate the evolution of the game, the game's mechanics and module design.

Paul Farquhar · Jul 29, 2018

I'm probably well qualified to comment on this, having DMed it both in 1st edition and 5th. As others have already mentioned, this adventure was designed as a tornament module. The primary objective is simply to escape the dungeon alive, and the secondary objective to do so in the shortest possible time. The original version even included a tournament scorecard. Most of the encounters are designed to delay and destract the players.

One key feature of this module is the poison gas, which is intended to impede the party's ability to rest. Thus the encounters don't ramp up much in power, it is assumed that the party's resources will become depleted. The Centaur Mummy is the closest thing this dungeon has to an end boss. The giant hyena only shows up if players return to the shrine after leaving. The Oni is a "you took the wrong turn and did the wrong thing and now you are screwed" encounter. As others have said, welcome to Old School. The translation to 5e also disrupted the relative strengths of the various encounters a smidgen.

The reason for the odd shaped rooms was to try and slow down players who try to draw accurate maps.

Zotziliaha is the name of the evil bat god to whom the shine is dedicated. They would be far too powerful to show up in a 5th level dungeon, but can be used as a plot hook for future adventures.

The actual design of the encounters is intended to showcase the author's research into mezo-american myth and culture, rather than dungeon logic. For example the two-headed serpent is based on an artifact in the British Museum.

jerryrice4949 · Jul 29, 2018

I have DMd and been a player in this dungeon for 1e. I have fond memories of it. Like others have mentioned already as a tournament module, like many of the early classics, it feels very different than more modern adventures.

I find these old school modules replayed for 5e really depend on the story telling and creativity of the DM to make sense in a larger context.

Henry · Jul 29, 2018

This adventure does give inspiration for a really interesting scenario, though: a timed adventure in which even short rests are not viable because you have to be out inside of two hours or you succumb to a hostile environment. The slavelords series had a similar thing in its last module - only made even more difficult by harsher circumstances. It would certainly be an excellent scenario for the penultimate or final adventure in a campaign.

Otterscrubber · Jul 29, 2018

jerryrice4949 said:
I have DMd and been a player in this dungeon for 1e. I have fond memories of it. Like others have mentioned already as a tournament module, like many of the early classics, it feels very different than more modern adventures.

I find these old school modules replayed for 5e really depend on the story telling and creativity of the DM to make sense in a larger context.

Ah, these explanations make this dungeon make a lot more sense. If that is the purpose it was designed for then Bravo! Well designed. Although it does make me wonder why they included it in the Tales from the Yawning Portal book, I assumed those dungeons were ready to play for a standard adventure rather than a tournament style competition. Kinda my fault for starting the adventure and only reading part of the dungeon before throwing my PCs into it. I will do my homework in the future. Thanks for the feedback folks!

Mistwell · Jul 29, 2018

We're playing in it right now as a standard adventure. We fell through into the ruins, are trapped, and trying to find our way out. With no access to long rests, it's an increasingly difficult death trap of an adventure. We're loving it.