WOIN Shifter style Druid questions

Flips · Jul 29, 2018

Hey!

I have this player who is interested in building a shifter style character that would want to spend most of their time in some animal form. With Transform Beast they can shapeshift into a 4d6 wolf for the not-so-low cost of 8MP. However, there are some questions that they have, and I am not sure of.

If they pay for a duration of, say 4 hours, could they shift back and forth during that duration? This would, of course require some actions, possibly even a long enough to make "Underworld" style transformations impossible. Is there some extra MP to pay for this effect, is it mitigated by having a longer transformation time?
Now that they have 6d6 MDP, when they shift into a wolf, which MDP do they use, the wolf's 4 or their 6?
Could they, in theory, use magic while shifted?

I realize that some of these may come down to flavor, but I wanted to check if there was some solid rules around this before I go making things up and breaking some balance. Thanks in advance!

Morrus · Jul 29, 2018

1. I would add another enhancement to handle that. Off the top of my head to Transform Creature, add "For an additional 2 MP, the creature can transform between its two forms at-will within the spell's duration by spending a full minute and one LUC die." I haven't playtested that though, so I'd be curious to see how it plays out.

2. You get the stats of the creature you transform into. If they wanted a 6d6 MDP, they'd need to transform into a 6d6 creature. You could advance the wolf two dice.

3. Sure, they keep their own mental attributes etc. Would need the Silent Caster exploit though, as a wolf isn't able to speak.

Flips · Jul 30, 2018

Morrus said:
1. I would add another enhancement to handle that. Off the top of my head to Transform Creature, add "For an additional 2 MP, the creature can transform between its two forms at-will within the spell's duration by spending a full minute and one LUC die." I haven't playtested that though, so I'd be curious to see how it plays out.

2. You get the stats of the creature you transform into. If they wanted a 6d6 MDP, they'd need to transform into a 6d6 creature. You could advance the wolf two dice.

3. Sure, they keep their own mental attributes etc. Would need the Silent Caster exploit though, as a wolf isn't able to speak.

1. That sounds like something we can try, though with his MAG stat being a limiting factor at this point, the duration will have to be drastically reduced.

2. Speaking of limiting factors, at least at low(ish) levels like Grade 7, it makes it very hard to transform into an animal of similar MDP. Even with full MAG careers 10 is about the best he can do (5d6 MDP creature with no duration improvements). I guess the concern is how useful they would be at MDP -2, especially if the don't get the animals skills.

4. When it comes to skills, I assumed that keepng you mental attributes means you keep your skills and don't get the animals (save for something like scent). is that correct or do you get their skills as well, like hunting, tracking, scent, and combat? what about the creatures exploits? If the don't get the creatures skills, I would guess that they can take ad hoc improvements to raise combat (since very few careers, and no magical ones, give generic combat skill increases).

I am thinking that I might have to design a Shifter type class with a Druid base in order for this playstyle to keep pace with the other players.

Morrus · Jul 30, 2018

You’d get it’s physical abilities, but not it’s mental abilities. That requires a little adjudication, but general skills tend to be learned, while exploits are more likely to be pure physical abilities.

Flips · Jul 31, 2018

Morrus said:
You’d get it’s physical abilities, but not it’s mental abilities. That requires a little adjudication, but general skills tend to be learned, while exploits are more likely to be pure physical abilities.

Ya, that is what I had figured originally too. Unfortunately, it means in many cases that not only are you working with a smaller MDP but you also don't have many of the skills that would be why you might use the form (like tracking and combat). Certainly certain skill would come as part of the changed physiology (like scent). I will have to think about it more and see what we come up with.

Morrus · Jul 31, 2018

It sounds like you want a much more powerful ability than the one written.

Flips · Jul 31, 2018

Morrus said:
It sounds like you want a much more powerful ability than the one written.

Probably. Which might not be balanced. We would have to see. His original idea was from a Pathfinder/3.5 Druid type (which are admittedly overpowered as a class) but his big concern is that with a much smaller MDP, he won't be able to contribute effectively in animal form. We arent trying to break things, just understand why some things are balanced the way they are and to find ways to explore alternate play styles and character ideas that don't make a character noticeably less powerful than others.

Morrus · Jul 31, 2018

What does he want to contribute to? Are we talking about combat here?

Flips · Jul 31, 2018

Well yes, and no.

With a lower MDP and no natural ranks in combat he will be less helpful in combat.
Without getting the natural skills of the animal scent, hunting, tracking, stealth and a lower MDP, he will be less helpful out of combat as he also has Druid skills to raise like transformation.
If he does purchase a lot of ad-hoc skills to raise his abilities and an animal, he will fall further behind as it is much less beneficial than taking new Ranks in Careers.

Racial Paragon might help here as he is an elf and the +3 MAG will be highly beneficial.

Morrus · Jul 31, 2018

Shapeshifting isn’t really designed as a long term thing. It’s a short term thing where being in that form might be useful. Turn into a mouse and scurry through a small hole, for example, or turn into a gorilla to lift a log.

I would allow scent. Probably tracking too. It’s largely up to the GM. Just not major magical abilities or extra intelligence.

For a dedicated shifter, you probably need a new career.