ClaytonCross
Kinder reader Inflection wanted
So I got my information on the
Japaneses sword Wiki but it looks like I grabbed the wrong line because I went back an noticed I grabbed the Wakizahi. I made a mistake. I can confirm the original source agrees with the Katana page
Blade length approx. 60–73 cm (23 5⁄8–28 3⁄4 in)
Weight 1.1–1.3 kg (2.4-2.9 lbs)
So I immediately pickup your someone who has had many longsword vs Katana debates and your keying in on the details (rightfully so because I used them, I am not debuting that) but not my point. We are not just debating swords we are trying to solve a player problem. I approached this wrong by trying to get real world technical in a fantasy world. I should have known it would head to a sword debate not a D&D solution debate. My mistake. So let me try this again, but because I opened that can of worms I am going to have address some of the data I brought up and you replied with…
For the sake of argument AND in an attempt to help out the OP. Lets clearify goals a little beyond JUST arguing swords. We know the OP wants to play a Samarai with a katana (do able, mostly flavor, sure). We know that the OP wants scaling damage with the sword (which monks have so that is non-homebrew possibility). The OP is asking for a way to approach this that makes sense. One thing I don’t think we will disagree on is that the Katana is a two-handed capable sword that can be used one handed. In D&D terms we call it versatile. But that quality alone does not necessarily qualify a template of longsword? Well first, we have to determine what longsword is in D&D. If it qualifies for anything else. Then try and find the best option for what the OP wants out of appropriate choices.
Ok, I am in HEMA with some the same guys I play D&D with, so you know we have had this debate. It almost a requirement if you cross those two streams. We all agree, the D&D Longsword is a “hand and a half sword”. No Argument there. let’s look at two options we came up with.
1. Can a Katana be close enough to Hand and a half sword (called a Longsword in D&D 5e) for a Hand and a Half sword (aka D&D 5e Longsword) to be used as a template?
Physical comparison:
A Long Katana with a 73cm (29 in) blade, wighting 1.3kg (~3lbs)
-vs-
A Hand and a Half Sword with a little longer with a 85cm (33.5 inch) blade, weighting 1.4kg (3.1 lbs)
-- IRL They can both be use one handed or two handed. Both can theoretically be used with a shield but are normally not. Most historical references I have seen show the Hand and half sword as slightly lighter two handed sword as a backup to a spear or polearm that doesn’t have as long a handle impeding your use of those weapons until you need it and doesn’t have blade so long that it drags the ground when worn on the hip.
-- Pretty similar. I would agree the D&D Longsword (aka Hand and a half sword) could be a decent template for a Katana. But is it the only one?
2. So there are a large variety of Katana, longswords, hand and a half swords, and short swords in the real world. I picked the larges Katana and called it a hand and a half sword. Could a small Katana still be comparable to a short sword?
A Short Katana with a 60cm (24 inch) blade, weighing 1.1kg (~2.4lbs), total length with appropriate 22.4cm “Tsuka” handle is likely about 83cm (32 inches)
- vs –
A Arming Sword (aka Short sword) with a 75 cm (30 in) blade, weighing 1.1 kg (2.4 lb), total length of 90 cm (35 in)
--First thing to notice that a short Katana is actually shorter than an arming both in blade and total length. However, I would say they are comparable and you could get a longer blade to even them out in total length since Katana only go up and remember this is an average Arming sword, so they make smaller one. Point being they are easily in range of each other.
--So the question then is were they used the same IRL? Could a short Katana be used with a shield and/or duel wielded like an arming sword can?
In case some wants to debate arming sword as duel wielding weapon, because you have never picked up a sword manual I made this a link so another guy can argue it for me. Also, on of the guys in our my HEMA group has been doing if or a while and though I was skeptical at first he has more than proved its functional and have the knots and bruises to prove it. If it was known then, and its functional, someone used it I have no doubt.
Duel wielding Katana was a thing. One form of it is called "Niten Ichi-ryū"
Also, there are few old Kendo and historical manuals that depicted that Samurai did in fact use shields at lest for some time in history. They are mostly depicted as square bucklers basically, but later strapped to the shoulders and became iconic “square shoulder armor” or Spaulders called “sode”.
The question only question left to qualify it as D&D short sword is are shorter light Katana people capable of wielding them as finesse weapons?
I don’t think I really need to argue that they can a shorter light Katana can certainly be wielded as finesse weapons or as power (aka strength) weapon. I think these means a shorter lighter katana could qualify as a shortsword. Some may want to say a hand and a half sword can too but they really don’t wield that way in my experience because the short handle makes them very “front heavy”. I have seen this addressed in shortswords (arming swords) by putting a strong taper on the blade moving a lot of the wait back toward the handle. Since hand and a half swords are usually a backup for polearms they tend to be front heavy by design to knock away heavy polearms. (I am not saying the don’t exist, Just that in my limited experience, I have not actually seen or used one tapered and light enough to be “finesse” but if they are out their, they might also be shorter for the same reason and ultimately might qualify for shortsword as well.)
Sure.
If the Katana you use is longsword 1d8 versatile 1d10, then the Wakizashi is a 1d6.
If the Katana you use is shortword 1d6 versatile 1d8, then the Wakizashi is a 1d4.
Makes since to me that its one level lower too.
So all of this is to say, I believe there is a heavier longer Katana that could be considered a longsword 1d8 versatile 1d10 power weapon however I also believe there is a shorter lighter Katana that could be considered a shortword 1d6 versatile 1d8 and Finesse.
If we can agree on that, then we still have one question unanswered. Which one best fits the character and story the OP wants? Not answer that makes this all pointless. The OP said, “In stead of searching the world for a better Katana which doesn't exist. I would make a custom one that gets stronger as I level up.” However, monks damage increases already and the OP also said. “I would like to play a samurai character.” I see two options.
1. Fighter – Samerai subclass, magic altering sword that covers it all.
2. Monk – Way of the Kensai or another subclass and just call it a samurai if you want to be samurai not specifically a “Fighter Sub-class Samurai”
- In any possible variation of those two options the shorter lighter Katana that could be considered a shortword 1d6, versatile 1d8, and Finesse would work. Doing more damage with the fighter through more attacks per round and more damage with the monk by doing more damage as the martial arts die increases.
- If you go the other way you have go strength with the figher, Kensai subclass with the monk, or homebrew a progression system with the sword.
---In my opinion. Not that it matters. The smaller lighter Katana that could be considered a shortword 1d6 versatile 1d8 and Finesse is beater solution because it fits no matter what other change you make at a later date. Because giving versatile to shortsword template will not be super over powered because anyone wanting a 1d8 Finesse weapon can use a rapier on handed. On the other hand, giving Finesse to a "Longsword" template with versatile 1d10 means it becomes the new most powerful Finesse weapon in the game. This causes a number of problems, first and foremost that instead of just another option you have a new "best" weapon you will see all the time instead of just for the purpose/need discussed here and/or flavor.
Last edited:
