ZEITGEIST 4e monsters and NPCs mysteriously missing hit points?

EarthSeraphEdna · Aug 27, 2018

I notice that all across the 4e version of this adventure path, many monsters and NPCs are missing hit points that their level, monster role, and Constitution scores would entitle them to. For example, in Always on Time, Olivert Boone is missing 5 hit points, Ottavia is missing 2 hit points, Gene is down 4 hit points, Lya has 4 less hit points than she is entitled to, Verzubak is missing 16 hit points, and the bookpins are missing 3 hit points.

At the start of Cauldron-Born, the Kell-guild technologists are missing 20 hit points, Rufus Hammerton also has 20 hit points missing, and the ghoulish crow swarm is missing 21 hit points. Those are huge chunks of missing hit points, and this seems to apply to nearly every other monster and NPC in Cauldron-Born, too. Even the B-team has lower hit points than they are entitled to.

Is there a reason for these mysteriously missing hit points in the encounter design? Would a GM be well in their rights to patch encounter difficulty by restoring the proper hit points of various enemies?

Andrew Moreton · Aug 27, 2018

A GM is well within their rights to change anything at all. In fact their job is to change and adjust any purchased scenario to fit the needs of their group. I run in Pathfinder and I rewrite almost all npc's to match my needs . I do this with all published AP's because I enjoy it and because I am a generous GM with competent power gaming players who build very effective characters so npc's need to be more powerful than normal to pose the appropriate level of challange

RangerWickett · Aug 27, 2018

My experience, and advice I got from other GMs, was that fights in 4e take a smidge too long. MM1 stats for monsters had them not doing enough damage, and having too many hit points, so fights were like having people in those inflatable sumo costumes bouncing off each other. I think starting around adventure 4 we began reducing enemy HP and slightly upgunning their damage or attack bonuses.

Mind you, it was, like, 4 or 5 years ago, so my recollection is fuzzy.

EarthSeraphEdna · Aug 28, 2018

RangerWickett said:
My experience, and advice I got from other GMs, was that fights in 4e take a smidge too long. MM1 stats for monsters had them not doing enough damage, and having too many hit points, so fights were like having people in those inflatable sumo costumes bouncing off each other. I think starting around adventure 4 we began reducing enemy HP and slightly upgunning their damage or attack bonuses.

Mind you, it was, like, 4 or 5 years ago, so my recollection is fuzzy.

Is this actually the case though? Looking at Rufus Hammerton, for example, he is a level 9 standard brute, which means that his at-will attacks should be dealing an average of 17 × 1.25 = 21.25 damage, yet he deals only 20.5 average damage on at-will attack. That is unimpressive, seeing how he is missing 20 hit points.

The Kell-guild technologists are level 8 standard controllers who deal 16 average damage on an at-will attack, which is compliant with Monster Manual 3 math, and yet they are missing 20 hit points.

hirou · Aug 29, 2018

Encounter math was revamped in Monster Manual 3 (http://blogofholding.com/?p=512) and I can swear Ryan mentioned somewhere in these forums that they updated monster design starting from around adventure 3. The noted examples actually have even lower HPs that MM3 suggests, but honestly I don't think that's the main problem with combat balance, you'll have to adjust many things on the fly regardless.

Boone, Gene, Ottavia all have horrible number disadvantages against the party, and any focus fire from strikers will kill them quickly regardless of their HP. I think in my campaign poor Gene missed his only chance to produce a dublicant from a mirror and then died within 6 seconds (which is IMHO somewhat fitting for a lunatic he is; I want to revisit him eventually). If you feel that combat encounters are too easy AND if your party likes combat - feel free to adjust HP by ~1 PC attack worth of damage or more. Personally I feel that combat is never the focus of the campaign (rather, avoiding the conflict and war is one of Vekeshi goals, for example) so most of our playtime is devoted to conversations. On the other hand, that's why my campaign is turning 3 years old, I think, and we're only halfway done -_-

Samuel Cole · Sep 2, 2018

Can confirm that 4e fights are long. We're in Adventure 13 and just finished a battle with Harkover Lee. It took two sessions and about 5 hours of playtime.