Why 5E may be the last edition of D&D

We don't need a good drow in the main characters' group, but she can be a extra help in some scene, or giving some advice or guide. Or a secondary character bein killed by the main villain and one of the main heroes wants to take revenge.

Or she could be an anti-villain who change sides because she notice about the true valour of human dignity and the true authority can't use subordinates like cheap fresh cannon fodder but loyalty has to be mutual. Or she could be a gladiator fighting against beasts and criminals in a circus, and an albine spy who fall in loves with one of the main characters and she become his girlfriend in the sequel.

doctorbadwolf said:

I mean, no. They’d just criticize it strongly and call people out. But if it’s more fun to pretend they’re a wild murder mob, go off I guess

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Have you seen the the rage about the whitewashing accusations from the Ghost in the Shell movies? The vitriol spewed at people who hated on Ghostbusters? Any comedian who made a racially "insentive" joke (but didn't say the n-word) or a mildly sexist joke? The incident that got the Roseanne reboot cancelled? Show dark-skinned people as the antagonists with any light-skinned people in a protagonist role and you invite seething hatred. Same with a woman (unless the protagonist is also a woman, then it is fine).

Personally, I'd rather they didn't have any drow in the D&D movie, mainly because I am not a fan of the race at all. Doesn't help all the Drizzt clones and edgelords basically ruined the race for me.

oreofox said:

Have you seen the the rage about the whitewashing accusations from the Ghost in the Shell movies? The vitriol spewed at people who hated on Ghostbusters? Any comedian who made a racially "insentive" joke (but didn't say the n-word) or a mildly sexist joke? The incident that got the Roseanne reboot cancelled? Show dark-skinned people as the antagonists with any light-skinned people in a protagonist role and you invite seething hatred. Same with a woman (unless the protagonist is also a woman, then it is fine).

Personally, I'd rather they didn't have any drow in the D&D movie, mainly because I am not a fan of the race at all. Doesn't help all the Drizzt clones and edgelords basically ruined the race for me.

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Your choice of news and social media have skewed your perception of progressive reactions to problematic content.

Or you’re just prone to wild hyperbole.

oreofox said:

Have you seen the the rage about the whitewashing accusations from the Ghost in the Shell movies? The vitriol spewed at people who hated on Ghostbusters? Any comedian who made a racially "insentive" joke (but didn't say the n-word) or a mildly sexist joke? The incident that got the Roseanne reboot cancelled? Show dark-skinned people as the antagonists with any light-skinned people in a protagonist role and you invite seething hatred. Same with a woman (unless the protagonist is also a woman, then it is fine).

Personally, I'd rather they didn't have any drow in the D&D movie, mainly because I am not a fan of the race at all. Doesn't help all the Drizzt clones and edgelords basically ruined the race for me.

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Sometimes its not what you say but how you say it. I didn't go see Ghostbusters because I don't watch a lot of movies and I like the originals. If you want to make something new that is diverse etc make it original and make it good (Like Orange is the New Black).

If I made something with Drizzt in it the Drow would hardly be in it except for Drizzt. You would know the Drow are evil due to exposition, the 1st evil ones would be something like a pair of glowing eyes in a dark cave with ominous music. It would also be animated and I would be after a Drow Cersei Lannister rather than some bwa ha ha evil matriarchal cartoon. Or a female Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars. I would build up to it rather than fo with something liek Homeland (the Drizzt book).

The Drow are a problem you basically have to CGI it like Green Lantern, animate it or use something that is close to ye olde blackface.

Drizzt books are also young adults, I tried rereading them and the old ones are better than the new but they're not that great, other D&D books have aged better such as the Lynn Abbey Darksun books, anything by Elaine Cunningham, or even something like the Iron Throne an old Birthright novel.

doctorbadwolf said:

Your choice of news and social media have skewed your perception of progressive reactions to problematic content.

Or you’re just prone to wild hyperbole.

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He is overreacting, but it's not as nice as you think. I'm barely in social media any more, and the reaction against white-washing in recent movies has been pervasive and forceful, and runs the gamut from 'detached thoughtful analysis' to 'shame on them all retweet storms'.

This isn't a dishonest 'both sides' equivocation. It's a condemnation of how social media enables unthinking mob mentality. While it enables the right to unify and amplify literal Nazis to terrorize with death threats, it enables the left to get caught up in 'retweet and like and pile on with a snarky hot take to do your moral deed for the day' nonsense.

I think it's reasonable to assume an actor of lesser stature than Scarlet Johansson or Matt Damon - one that had to rely on social media for their brand - would risk significant blow-back for any role that had problematic racial overtones. Being caught in that crosshairs is too much for most,

Again, not 'literally scared for their life', but enough negative noise to be a potential career risk.

schnee said:

He is overreacting, but it's not as nice as you think. I'm barely in social media any more, and the reaction against white-washing in recent movies has been pervasive and forceful, and runs the gamut from 'detached thoughtful analysis' to 'shame on them all retweet storms'.

This isn't a dishonest 'both sides' equivocation. It's a condemnation of how social media enables unthinking mob mentality. While it enables the right to unify and amplify literal Nazis to terrorize with death threats, it enables the left to get caught up in 'retweet and like and pile on with a snarky hot take to do your moral deed for the day' nonsense.

I think it's reasonable to assume an actor of lesser stature than Scarlet Johansson or Matt Damon - one that had to rely on social media for their brand - would risk significant blow-back for any role that had problematic racial overtones. Being caught in that crosshairs is too much for most,

Again, not 'literally scared for their life', but enough negative noise to be a potential career risk.

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I mean, the gulf between what you describe and what they were saying is so immense, that I’d say “wild hyperbole” is entirely spot on.

But...also, you did just kinda equivocate nazi enabling and retweet dog-piling. They...they aren’t like cases. At all.

To the main point, though, so what? People get criticized on twitter. Ok. For the most part they get pretty soft criticism when they’re a small time actor still struggling to get decent work. The “tweetstorms” are reserved for A-listers and Studios, directors, etc.

ScarJo can handle being called out in a massive way when she repeatedly takes roles she doesn’t need to make a living that are blatantly white-washing or similarly problematic.

It’s basically that scene in Inglorious Basterds. “More like chewed out. We’ve been chewed out before.”

Mercurius said:

But let's say they really have accomplished what they hoped to do: Turned D&D into an evergreen game, a perennial classic like Monopoly or Risk - one that abides, with only relatively minor fluctuations. If that is truly the case, a new edition would be disastrous. Why? Because a new edition means re-learning the game and playing a different style of D&D. Now this is something that a lot of diehards like to do. But casual fans generally don't.

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D&D survived the introduction of Holmes D&D and "re-learning" the game and playing a different style. It survived BECMI and it's "re-learning" and style changes. It survived becoming Advanced D&D (1E) and its definite re-learning and style changes - in fact it exploded in popularity. It survived the addition of Unearthed Arcana and all that it wrought. It survived 2nd Edition and the unceremonious removal of the games creator from its future development. It survived the Players/DM's Options and innumerable splatbooks and new settings. It survived 3rd Edition. It survived 3.5. It survived the intrusion of Pathfinder. It survived 4th Edition - and that was SO different from "D&D" as it had heretofore been conceived that it boggles the mind and warps time and space. It has seemingly survived 5th Edition. It has survived retroclones, reprints of old editions, and threats from other RPG's entirely.

Why in hell would it suddenly collapse NOW because "nobody wants to re-learn the rules and adapt to a new style"? If the game has not died of its own bastardizations, cannibalizations and modernizations up to now, it is utterly baseless to believe it ever could even be intentionally driven to a whimpering death. Editions of D&D will always have their die-hard individual fanbases but D&D in general is unfazed by any flavor-of-the-month tendencies anyone in charge of the IP has EVER had, or WILL ever have.

But maybe that's just me...

D&D that stayed the same wouldn't be very D&D

I'm extremely late on this conversation but I find at least in my area (Southern Vermont) DnD is the weakest it has been since the late eighties. Why Play DnD when you have computers, TV or phones.

DnD as we know it is ending. Or at least evolving into something new.

DnD editions ended with 3.5 for me and Pathfinder for the area I live in. NO ONE did 4th and few do 5th (none that I know but an occasional book does get sold or stolen.

Garthanos said:

D&D that stayed the same wouldn't be very D&D

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DnD is I define it is "Fantasy role playing in small social groups" Forgotten Realms, Eberron, Darksun, Pathfinder, Elric and so many more are that. They have a "theme" or "flavor" to identify them from each other but they are all the same basic game. So change doesn't seem like the right word. Style yes.